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Likewise, well played and I hope you play with us again - I had fun, even if it was an uphill battle. I expected to be eliminated much sooner and probably would have won if Caito hadn't been the one to get eliminated back on day one.

I'm referring to the game as a whole. Not just isolated, cherry picked moments.

Again, context matters. In the context of this game Kareemah - the slot you took over - has been evading elimination throughout the entirety of the game thus far. I have not been evading elimination willingly. I told Void and others to get me out of the way to prevent me being exploited at this point in the game. I saw it coming. I told people I saw it coming and explained my concerns and nobody listened. Furthermore, many reads this game have been incorrect and came about in some cases due to tunnel vision.

I don't pretend to have all the answers in these games because I never do and to be quite honest it's exhausting when others pretend that they do. So much trouble could have been avoided this game if more players had been willing to play ball/go with a plan other than their own. I don't know what you want me to say in this situation.

I did not want to make it to the end game and be exploited as a misyeet, let alone have the pressure of being one of the deciding votes but the chips fell that way despite my best efforts to relay my concerns and avoid such a situation.

Listo95 said:

Just ignore the fact that both MTR and VK said to go after Mattheiu. Not like I'd be the one to NK someone who had me as town. :D

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MTR was voting for me as far back as day one because I jokingly voted to sleep - and once again, Void didn't insist on going after me to the extent that you're implying and it doesn't account for the fact that I was trying to convince him and everybody else to get me out of the way as an earlier misyeet to prevent us getting into this predicament in the first place. I'm not sure how many times I need to point that out.

You're right, though, this exchange isn't going to change either of our mind's and so it comes down to Windward. If she's scum, well played and no hard feelings. If she's town, then she has my genuine sympathy for being placed in the tricky position of the deciding vote.

Vote: Listo

Well, if Windward comes in immediately to vote me then we'll soon seen if I've been barking up the wrong tree, then.

Listo95 said:

Matthieu is someone who uses emotions very well to get what he wants. (I won’t deny I’m decent at it also).

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...and yet you said this only a handful of posts earlier.

There's no need to be aggressive...I've been busy myself throughout this game and have been dragged to the final three despite my best efforts to prevent that from happening because this trajectory was so obvious it's almost infuriating to imply otherwise at this point.

My point also wasn't just that you ended the day early so much as the fact that you didn't even comment on my own suggestions at all and then when MTR's alignment was revealed you immediately accused me of being '99% scum' and then shifted over to '100% scum'.

You also tried to kill discussion and debate, insisting that I had to be the last scum and that nobody should listen to my 'excuses'.

Actually, it's probably easier if I link this:


It's a thread we used to keep track of many of the games we played. I don't expect you to go through all of them, of course, but you should be able to look at them at random if you want to do a deep dive of how we each play as various roles/alignments.

If we're linking past games, then I'd point to this one:


Listo was third party, a jester who had the win requirement of being yeeted. I was a town aligned hunter who had a major clash with a scum Foxxi and had to go on 'trial' multiple times in a manner not unlike the situation I'm in this game.

For an example of a game where I played and won as scum, I'd point to this one:


For clarification, on the other site we played on I went by the name Graeham - here I'm known as Matthieu.

Matthieu said:

If you want to yeet me, do it this day phase so I can go back to playing RE4.

I still think Kareemah is a good candidate for the remaining member of the scum team, so look there after taking me out if you decide to go that route.

At the risk of repeating myself, we've had many games where the last remaining scum has been someone very quiet/outright inactive. Paranoia grips everybody else, they point fingers and come up with elaborate reasons as to why X, Y or Z is not to be trusted when...in reality, things were actually very simple. It's the same mistake a made a while back when I accused Void of secretly conspiring against town by making a bold play and...he wasn't doing that at all.

If it isn't Kareemah then I don't know who to look at which is another reason I don't mind being taken out today. I'm going to shamelessly insist someone else cost us the game instead of letting me reach endgame and make a random shot in the dark as to who to trust.

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Posts such as this one, are what I'd point to. I have been telling people all along to yeet me and deal with inactive players. I don't mean to come across as salty but I really do not want to cost us the game in the final hour(s). I'm not going to pretend to be a super amazing player with incredible reads because I'm not. I play these games pretty casually and don't exactly do the elaborate note taking that some other players do.

Listo95 said:

Explain this to me then. You say I think about the future. In what universe do I kill LDG, who I spent the entire night phase begging to vote a specific person instead of Windward?

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Your other choices of a kill were either myself or Windward. I believe you chose LDG because you believed - until this day phase - that Windward shared your 'complete town read' on LDG. You were keen on ending the day phase earlier and much like you keep avoiding answering the question I posed to you earlier, you didn't exactly do much to discuss my own suggestions as to how to proceed back then either.

Listo95 said:

Also seriously stop talking about being left alive in LyLo for an easy lynch. You are literally talking to the person it happens to all the time since I suck at making arguments and defending myself.

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Why should I stop bringing it up? It's exactly what has happened. I have identified it as happening at multiple points throughout the game. I tried to get myself eliminated to avoid being in this predicament but nobody actually wanted to go along with it when the damage of a misyeet could be mitigated.

I'd also say your situation this game is fairly unique - given that you took over from someone else. Only the most recent day phases, then, are applicable to you - and if you believe me to be scum you can't claim that I kept you around for a misyeet because I was going after Kareemah pretty aggressively early on as part of my plan to mitigate the damage from lurkers/inactive players which...have risked costing us many a game over the years.

I believe I brought that up at the time, too, as my reasoning.

Listo95 said:

In Matthieu, the meta read was all the him offering his life for others. Issue is he’s done it as scum before. (It’s normally his town play)

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Context matters.

There's enough pressure on Windward as it stands but you're essentially asking her to trust your word despite this being her first game playing with us and pointing to specific games out of the hundred or so we've played together at this point is only going to sow further confusion.

Again, context matters - I've offered myself up as a target to be yeeted in place of someone else as town if I believe they're going to be of more help than I am. I've offered myself up as a yeet in place of scum if I'm a non-power scum role and the godfather/some other valuable scum role is about to be yeeted...but that's not applicable to this game not only because I'm not scum but...because there's no power roles in play.

I also offered myself up multiple times across multiple day phases. It wasn't the usual one off. I was doing it specifically to avoid being put in this position since I saw it coming - just as Windward did in regards to herself.

I'm not really following your logic here by trying to paint me as scum. How is me offering myself up in place of Claws meant to win the game, exactly? Especially with Caito dead on day one? It's not my fault people kept yeeting other people instead of me when I begged them to sort out the mess at a point where it wouldn't cost us the game.

Listo95 said:

Yes but I believe I could get LDG to vote with me much easier than you lol.

Matthieu is someone who uses emotions very well to get what he wants. (I won’t deny I’m decent at it also).

But we have to look at it like this also. At this point pretty much every dead townie has called him scum at some point. If you don’t want to trust me trust VK at this point. He literally posted saying I was more town than him before he died.

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One more post before I head out because my buddy is never on time.

I'll ask again - can you answer my earlier question, please?

As for an additional question, where am I using emotions to my advantage in this game, exactly?

I think you're misrepresenting what players such as Void suggested. They had no certainty as to my alignment and I didn't oppose being yeeted earlier on in the game. At numerous points, no less. It's not exactly an uncommon tactic for clever scum to deliberately leave me alive throughout a game - especially if they know I'm no direct threat to them. It's when I'm a TPR or claim outright that I typically get night killed.

Now, the reason I trust Windward over you at this point is not only based on previous day phases and how they played out but because if the last remaining scum were Windward then there isn't much reason for Windward to simply build a case against me directly, vote and then count on you following suit to end the game. In the event that it is Windward then I'll readily commend her deviousness.

The two scum we've slain so far are Caito and Future. I'd like to know, exactly, where you believe the threads pointing to me being aligned with them are. Caito was a lucky shot in the dark on D1 and largely occurred because the wagon formed by the friendly (?) rivalry between CWE and Caito. They always vote each other traditionally from what I've seen. I voted to sleep as a joke and as my own traditional then shifted over to MTR when he voted for me and I was told to put out a 'proper' vote.

That fed into Mazer convincing himself that Claws and I were scum. I told people to yeet me over Claws but nobody listened. I then asked Blind Ninja to shoot me when he got the gun and I've asked other times to be yeeted. I don't throw games. There's absolutely no universe where I pull a stunt like that more than once as scum in a single game.

More recently, in the previous day phase, I even suggested taking me out over MTR. You're the type of player to think ahead, so I'm very curious as to why you didn't latch on to that opportunity. The only conclusion I can draw is that you needed me to reach end game so you could try and convince Windward to side with you and take me out.

WindwardAway said:

Yeah but that's the thing, it makes sense to kill someone when you already know their wagon won't gain any traction.

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Yeah, though at the same time it'd be easier to convince me to yeet LDG over you at this point. As much as I wish it had happened, I suppose I was never going to be night killed by scum but at the same time, there's still no actual answer to my earlier question. Most of Listo's recent posts consist of him saying 'I know I'm town' and painting both LDG and yourself as 'likely to be town' but that isn't actually bringing anything to meaningfully discuss or defend/explain myself over.

It doesn't help that Kareemah was inactive, so there's only a few day phases involving Listo to look over whereas at least with you, me and LDG we can go back as far as D1 in that regard.

I'll be around again later today - in a few hours. I'm going out for a walk soon.

Vote placement? I was consistently pushing to deal with the quiet/inactive players - including Future - early on in the game. It's not my fault that people ignored me when I tried to defend Claws and Val. I even offered myself up as an alternative to Claws because we were partnered as masons in the previous game, I died before him and he did very well in my absence. You can go back and see that I even said as much at the time.

As for LDG, I stated outright that I wasn't entirely willing to clear LDG. Windward wasn't either, judging by what she revealed today - but you were fully embracing the whole 'LDG is town!!!!' thing.

Matthieu said:

I don't even know what I'm supposed to defend myself against because nobody is even bringing any solid accusations to the table other than insisting that someone is '100% town' and so I must be scum based on...circumstantial process of elimination? Something else? Explain, please.

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Specifically this, to be clear.

Listo95 said:

You seem to forget that in that game town kept trying to lynch me multiple days in a row.

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Windward and I have both had way more heat than you throughout the game and have both been pretty much begging to be taken out through a yeet or a night kill in order to avoid the burden of being stuck in the finale. I'm not surprised that it happened in such a manner but it's disappointing - especially not that a misyeet will cost the game.

I think we're getting side-tracked though - can you answer my previous question(s), please?

Listo95 said:

You’ve done stuff like that as scum and town.

Well I’ll just tell you that VK is one of the few people who almost never read me wrong.

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The key phrase there being 'almost never', eh? I need to go back and check, but wasn't Void casting doubt on you this game?

WindwardAway said:

Matthieu, I know you can't answer for them but why do you think both MTR and VK were dead certain Listo was town? MTR even said he'd stake his life on it.

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Listo often comes across as fairly town but he can also be incredibly devious. I liked his 'catch up' posts but in hindsight I can't help but wonder - if he was scum, he'd have a scum chat to look back on as well which would allow him to custom tailor his talking points rather well.

There was a game a while back that cost town a win based on Listo being third party. He could have sided with town but chose not to and very cynically sided with scum instead - so he absolutely would throw either of us under the bus in order to win.

Incidentally, it's been the case for a while now but the main reason I trust you more than Listo is based entirely on you being 'kept around' in the same way I have been. I'm a little surprised that LDG was taken out, though, given how much of a wildcard she is.

WindwardAway said:

Regardless of my current stance on the solve, I'll take the time to go through and review stuff and ask questions before I vote.

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Good. I'll be doing the same.

Matthieu said:

I don't get the impression that Claws is scum but rather being exploited as a potential easy target so if you want to go with me instead, go ahead.

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Matthieu said:

At this point, I honestly want you guys to shoot me as soon as D3 starts so I can win on the technicality of 'I TOLD YOU SO'.

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Matthieu said:

Even funnier if I get the gun myself. I'll shoot myself in that case for extra pettiness.

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Matthieu said:

I'd rather eliminate a quiet player. Taking out vocal, active players early on is counterproductive.

I'm not entirely against the idea, since I find Mazer difficult to read in general and his eagerness for both Claws and myself to be taken out unnerves me.

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Matthieu said:

Whoever gets the gun just shoot me when the next day phase starts. I'm glad I decided to go with my gut on Claws but to be honest with Resident Evil 4's remake launching at midnight tomorrow...I don't see much point in arguing back and forth only to become the next Claws.

Just look at Mazer when he leads not one but two innocent men to the gallows.

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Matthieu said:

Take me out.

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Matthieu said:

I'm fairly confident that Void can be trusted. He likes to solve games and typically when he's town he's more willing to look at things from different angles. I'm not just saying that because he's vouched for me, either.

Unfortunately I have a hunch that scum will just take him out to further isolate me since so many people have been oddly keen to just follow the crowd and go with the plan to eliminate both Claws and myself.

So I'm mostly concerned with mitigating that. Mazer should absolutely be yeeted once my alignment is revealed but I honestly don't know where to suggest going from there other than to just make your way through the quieter players. With two scum to find, I'd wager one is being vocal and another is sitting back. If that's not the case and Mazer isn't scum then...it'd be bitterly hilarious if both remaining scum are just sitting back and not really checking in because town are too busy arguing amongst themselves.

Which isn't an uncommon trend in these games but I don't have the energy to push harder for inactive players to be properly pushed and looked at.

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Some choice quotes from the earlier stages of the game. I'll post more if needed - and going back to check the context behind them is, of course, advised but I'm really note sure what Listo thinks my game plan is meant to be, as scum by asking to be yeeted/shot with the gun across multiple day phases.

One thing that does stand out to me, Windward, is Listo's eagerness to end the previous day phase. If you go back and read through the exchange - brief as it may have been - you'll note that I proposed a couple of options to help mitigate the readily telegraphed predicament that we're in now - just like I've been saying many times already. I don't even know what I'm supposed to defend myself against because nobody is even bringing any solid accusations to the table other than insisting that someone is '100% town' and so I must be scum based on...circumstantial process of elimination? Something else? Explain, please.

I really don't want to cost us the game.

Listo95 said:

Well it’s 100% him lol.

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It's not - and just a few hours earlier you were claiming that it was 99% so which is it? I'm about to go eat, so I'll be around but post more later. Have you gone back through my posts yet?

For what it's worth, if its you then you did very well and have me fooled and there won't be any hard feelings. If I survive the night, I have more to say so hopefully the day phase won't end as soon as it begins.

WindwardAway said:

The vibe I got was that she literally has not paid attention to anything in the game except for two things.

One, that VK said she could be a liability in LyLo, and two, that Val was inactive.

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Yeah. I don't even remember the last time LDG was scum, come to think of it. She seems to end up rolling town more often than not.

Listo95 said:

No. No, she is not.

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We can't rule anything out and stranger things have happened. I'd be surprised if it were the case, certainly, though purely on the basis of examining every possibility some of LDG's posts do arguably have an almost 'duper's delight' vibe to them.

Listo95 said:

Not like I had you 2nd on my scum list anyways.

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So you're just gambling on a whim and risking a loss, then? Assuming you can be trusted.

That said, I will be equal parts infuriated and amused if everybody has just been giving LDG a pass based on LDG doing LDG things only for it to turn out that she's the last remaining member of the scum team.

WindwardAway said:

Then who's the last wolf in your opinion? It wasn't MTR.

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Given his sudden shift in attitude, I'd have to say Listo. I'm not just saying that based on the fact that he's going after me, either - but when I proposed that we vote to sleep or take me out instead of MTR he didn't want to go and pursue that route but now, suddenly, he's extremely convinced that I'm the final member of the scum team. If I'm right, then he very likely isn't going to take me out during the night which means that he'll take out either you or LDG instead. I suppose it doesn't matter much who he goes for since he's perfectly capable of strong arming people into agreeing with his read.

I'd strongly suggest going back through the thread and examining my posts. I've been pretty consistent in trying to go after lurkers in this game as well as offering myself up on a platter precisely to avoid being in this exact same predicament in the first place.

I honestly don't know what to say other than that.

Listo95 said:

LDG is town. She spewed it that way. I'm town, multiple dead townies have said that. Wind is town in 9/10 universes to me. That literally leaves you as the only possible scum person to me.

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On what basis? What, specifically, points to me as not being town? The entire game has consisted of people going back and forth on whether I can be trusted or not and refusing to listen to any reads I put forward as well as any attempts at mitigation I took to try and prevent me making it to end game/allowing lurkers to make it to end game.

I'm not, though. How can I be when I've repeatedly asked to be eliminated to stop me reaching end game knowing I'd be exploited as a means of costing town the game? I haven't just pushed for that to happen once, either, I did it over multiple day phases and nobody went along with it.

End of game writeup?

MTR said:

If you guys yeet me then who ever lives through the night needs to go Matthieu next day phase.

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If you aren't scum, then it's very possible that I'll be the one to the killed during the upcoming night phase to get the remaining three players to point accusatory fingers at one another. So I think that's something people need to bear in mind and account for - as well as not rushing into the next day phase with any votes as it'll only take two (?) to successfully get off an elimination.

WindwardAway said:

Because I'm loud, I'm mostly townread, and I've been wrong the entire game. Doesn't that raise any red flags for you?

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It's also your first game playing with us, so for that reason alone I'm more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. You're fairly active and at least explaining your thought processes - in the event that you are scum then I'd honestly commend your acting skills.

I'd be more worried if you seemed to have all the answers despite not playing with us all before.

Another route we could take is to just vote to sleep. We avoid a day elimination and someone will likely be killed during the night but if that is the case then it makes it slightly less of a shot in the dark during the next day phase. That said, I'm not against leaving it to a random elimination. If we get lucky, that'll at least solve our problem outright.

If it isn't MTR then LDG is my next best guess based purely on the 'wildcard' factor.

On my end, I don't take notes in these games. I just go with the flow and sometimes that works out and sometimes it backfires. Though I guess that allows me to be more...flexible? I don't know - I just get the impression that MTR is being prone to tunnel vision and being too unwilling to adjust his reads.

After re-reading the thread, though, I haven't found anything that really stands out to tug at beyond it looking like Windward and I have just been kept around to misyeet in the late game - which happens pretty frequently around these parts as a scum tactic. Meanwhile most of the more vocal/active players have been taken out one by one. No offence to Listo, but that was a major part in my decision to double down on Kareemah earlier on.

MTR said:

Had we yeeted you and you had flipped town then I would have gone after Val since he was next on my list.

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Right. Yet Val was town, so that would be the wrong move.

Another question - putting me aside, of the players currently alive who would you look at as suspicious after taking me out?

MTR said:

Hey I tried to yeet you last day phase. Don't blame me. I started out the phase with the vote since we all know that is it is between me and you at this point and we are going to vote each other. Might as well get it out of the way.

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You tried, yes. Though you also conveniently trust everybody as town but me. Assuming I was eliminated last day phase, who you would you be looking at today with that in mind?

If you're genuinely town, MTR, then opening up the day phase with a vote on me is counterproductive - and essentially seals my suspicion of you. It's a clever ploy to have kept me alive this long despite me essentially begging to be yeeted earlier so I wouldn't be exploited in such a manner.

Vote: MTR

VoidKitten said:

Okay, but why is MTR the last scum?

You both obviously will say each other, but do neither of you have reasons other than "it ain't me?"

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I pointed it out earlier but generally my biggest beef with MTR is that he claimed to not know where to go and then immediately offered me up as a target - a rather easy one at that. I don't know what else to say other than pointing out that I've been happy to be yeeted for multiple day phases now and yet that hasn't happened.

I'm not really sure where to go from here and I'm not entirely convinced it's wise to say who I trust and suspect since if everybody does that, whoever the last remaining scum is can potentially kill whoever will cause the most chaos/frame a specific person by sending major heat and attention their way.

Void and Listo know as much, but I'm not really the 'deep analysis' type of player. I just react to stuff as it happens and generally stick to my gut feels for better or for worse. I only make big, ballsy gambles when I have something to fall back on as a power role. Which isn't the case this time around given the game's setup.

So yeah, if we can afford another misyeet then take me out tomorrow.

Just to get it out there I want to say that I think if Void were scum he would have gone for someone other than Jarrod. I know I would have done as much, since although Jarrod was confirmed town it would have led to more paranoia and chaos if somebody else died instead. He likes a challenge, after all.

It's also decidedly quiet, at least compared to previous day phases.

Unvote: Kareemah
Vote: MTR

Very little has changed since the previous day phase, though you were claiming back then that you were uncertain as to where to go. Now you're suddenly all for eliminating either Val, myself or both of us.

If you want to yeet me, do it this day phase so I can go back to playing RE4.

I still think Kareemah is a good candidate for the remaining member of the scum team, so look there after taking me out if you decide to go that route.

At the risk of repeating myself, we've had many games where the last remaining scum has been someone very quiet/outright inactive. Paranoia grips everybody else, they point fingers and come up with elaborate reasons as to why X, Y or Z is not to be trusted when...in reality, things were actually very simple. It's the same mistake a made a while back when I accused Void of secretly conspiring against town by making a bold play and...he wasn't doing that at all.

If it isn't Kareemah then I don't know who to look at which is another reason I don't mind being taken out today. I'm going to shamelessly insist someone else cost us the game instead of letting me reach endgame and make a random shot in the dark as to who to trust.

WindwardAway said:

So do you think kareemah is more likely the last scum than Val? Is there anyone else you're considering?

What do you think of my post where I said that I thought Val looked worse based off thread posts, and Kareemah looked worse off vote patterns?

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I can't rule out that Kareemah has simply been busy and she's still a fairly new player, I believe, but in other games I've played with her she's weighed in a lot more actively with her own thoughts rather than simply echoing what other players have already said.

I've played with Val for years, meanwhile, so if he were the last scum member I see him as being someone who would very likely serve as a 'guiding role'. Future seemed pretty directionless and with Caito being eliminated back on day one...if Kareemah is the remaining team member and simply hasn't been around then that would go a long way towards explaining Future's approach to the game.

VoidKitten said:

@Matthieu

Thoughts on Val this game?

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He's quiet. Which isn't alignment indicative and he's not as quiet as some of the even more quieter players. I'm tentatively reading him as town, but if Kareemah isn't the final scum then I'd say that pushes up Val's chances of fitting that role. I don't think I'll ever shed my bias of assuming the best of Val, though.

VoidKitten said:

He might not answer. I assume Resident Evil 4 has him.

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It does. Though I won't avoid checking back in, of course. The game iss pretty much exactly what I imagined it would be - in a good way.

VoidKitten said:

If Future flips scum, do you think the last scum is also quiet or would you look at more active?

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Quiet.

Of the active players, they're pretty much all players who I would expect to shake things up. I'm tentatively toying with the theory that Caito was paired with two quiet players and after being eliminated early, the remaining two players are sort of flailing about and playing things very safe hoping to escape notice. At the same time, it's only vocal players being eliminated through yeets and night kills.

That being said, if Future flips town then I'd be more comfortable supporting a yeet on Windward but for this day phase I think it's unwise to take out someone else who is being vocal.

VoidKitten said:

That didn't answer my question. I asked about Future. I suck at reading Jarrod too.

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Oh. I read it as you asking me about Jarrod.

But no, I don't get the impression that anything changes. I don't see myself switching to anyone other than Kareemah this day phase. As Jarrod said, his confirmed town status is very likely to make him the next kill target and that's another fairly active voice snuffed out. Not to sound like a broken record but...exactly how many vocal players do we need to see eliminated before we seriously double down on going after quieter players?

VoidKitten said:

@Matthieu

I know you are voting on Future. But with a Jarrod being green, do you think anything changes?

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I'm not sure. I'm terrible at reading Jarrod since I was convinced he was scum in a certain recent game and then it turned out he could be trusted, actually.

WindwardAway said:

In all seriousness, what's the likelihood caito flipped cause none of his partners even saw his wagon?

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That's a good point. They may have also arrived too late to change course so went with the 'easy' option of following what others were doing.

Windward is giving me Claws vibes. The frustration seems genuine and she isn't shying away from engaging anyone which is a good sign.

Currently posting this in between waiting for food to cook so I'll check back again later but if today is going to come down to Windward or Future then I'm going with the latter.

Vote: Future

Blind Ninja said:

@WindwardAway @VoidKitten @Matthieu @Val the Moofia Boss @LemonDemonGirl @Kareemah @FutureHold @Jarrod1983 @MTR

I would like everyone to answer... Who would you shoot? AND why?

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Kareemah or Futurehold. Both are very quiet, aren't really doing much beyond echoing what other posters are saying and I reckon if scum are hiding amongst quieter players, there's a good chance it'd be one of them.

Windward is a wildcard on the basis of being someone I haven't played with before though I wouldn't want to use the gun on her when she's proven to engage and respond to stuff.

VoidKitten said:

I also now kinda wanna see Matthieu as scum so I can be the absolute worst player this game.

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I'm happy to disappoint you on that front, then.

Though now with Mazer's alignment revealed I'm more convinced of my theory that town are fighting amongst themselves and scum are just sitting back and letting it happen.

VoidKitten said:

@Matthieu

Are we going to break up after this game like we did that one game where you betrayed my trust after telling me you wouldn't betray my trust thus betraying my trust?

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No.

I think the best route is to just push to yeet me if I survive the night phase and then use the gun to take out an inactive...or Mazer. I'll just be exploited as a distraction moving forward so there's little point bringing me into the mid/late game. Ordinarily I'd be all for it, but I'll be 'busy' with gaming as soon as RE4 goes live and it was more fun to have back and forth with Foxxi and avoid being executed because I actually had something to bring to the table as a solid gamble. I don't in this game, unless I end up with the gun.

I'm fairly confident that Void can be trusted. He likes to solve games and typically when he's town he's more willing to look at things from different angles. I'm not just saying that because he's vouched for me, either.

Unfortunately I have a hunch that scum will just take him out to further isolate me since so many people have been oddly keen to just follow the crowd and go with the plan to eliminate both Claws and myself.

So I'm mostly concerned with mitigating that. Mazer should absolutely be yeeted once my alignment is revealed but I honestly don't know where to suggest going from there other than to just make your way through the quieter players. With two scum to find, I'd wager one is being vocal and another is sitting back. If that's not the case and Mazer isn't scum then...it'd be bitterly hilarious if both remaining scum are just sitting back and not really checking in because town are too busy arguing amongst themselves.

Which isn't an uncommon trend in these games but I don't have the energy to push harder for inactive players to be properly pushed and looked at.

Jarrod1983 said:

See there was a reason I let Claws on my grass. I wish we had got that Matthieu vote through.

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Where would you have gone from there? Claws?

Blind Ninja said:

If i get the gun, Im shooting Grae or LDG... just a heads up

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Take me out.

Whoever gets the gun just shoot me when the next day phase starts. I'm glad I decided to go with my gut on Claws but to be honest with Resident Evil 4's remake launching at midnight tomorrow...I don't see much point in arguing back and forth only to become the next Claws.

Just look at Mazer when he leads not one but two innocent men to the gallows.

Mazer said:

I could also go Matt for the reasons I mentioned. I do think there's at least a chance that you could be town, and he thought you would go down, and he would later be a suspect. his defense would be that he tried to save you.

That would not be enough to move you off the red threat. but wouldn't hurt.

Do you see any holes in my logic?

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Why would I be telling people to eliminate me instead of Claws and to use the gun on me tomorrow if I intend to pull the 'I was right about Claws' argument? Especially since there's a chance that I could be wrong about Claws and he ends up flipping scum after all. Which is something I really hope doesn't happen but can't be ruled out completely as a possibility.

I'd tentatively say 10+ posts qualifies as 'active enough' for this stage of the game.

Mazer said:

If you were to take out an inactive player who wasn't Kareemah, who would you want to take out?

Any order of likely?

My concern on random inactive shoots, is the percentages are typically not good. Kareemah, even with a small sample-size read (although admittedly I feel good about it), seems like low probability to me.

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I went to go and check actual post counts. Peter is the lowest at two, but is the most likely to be eliminated for not posting. The rest of the quieter players are posting just enough to get by and although they may be busy, there's enough going on in the game in the way of discussion for people to have a hook to engage one way or the other.

Val is tied with Kareemah at six posts, but his analysis has been deep enough for me to not want to push him. He's quiet, but clearly keeping up with the thread.

Kareemah showed up and...that's about it. Same for Futurehold, who has two more posts than Val and Kareemah.

LDG has eleven posts so not inactive.

So other than Kareemah, I'd go with Peter or Future.

VoidKitten said:

@Matthieu

Mazer keeps pushing you as possibly sus. Would you vote Mazer?

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I'd rather eliminate a quiet player. Taking out vocal, active players early on is counterproductive.

I'm not entirely against the idea, since I find Mazer difficult to read in general and his eagerness for both Claws and myself to be taken out unnerves me.

Even funnier if I get the gun myself. I'll shoot myself in that case for extra pettiness.

At this point, I honestly want you guys to shoot me as soon as D3 starts so I can win on the technicality of 'I TOLD YOU SO'.

I'm not voting for Claws. I understand my gut feel a bit more now - there's this sense that Void, Wind and Mazer are sort of guiding the game in a specific direction and 'planning ahead' in a way that conveniently ends with both Claws and myself being eliminated. I find that odd, especially when historically scum are usually found hidden amongst quieter players as town fight against town.

All three cannot possibly be scum, though, since Caito already flipped. So...I dunno. That's just my current thoughts.

VoidKitten said:

Do you think that one of the scum is in the inactives? Or do you just want to eliminate one now while we 'can?'

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A bit of both, really. We often find scum hiding amongst the quieter players in these games. Though there isn't really anything specific that strikes me as something worthy of doubling down on.

WindwardAway said:

OK, so you're saying you'd rather keep Claws alive because he's an asset as town and you're confident in your read?

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That's correct.

VoidKitten said:

So does that mean I am scum yet? You said Winward has a pass, but I was the only other vote so am I suspicious? If so why Kareemah and not me?

Forget Windward or I voting on Claws, how do you feel about his posts and reactions to the votes?

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As I said, I have no strong reads other than towards Claws. Which I why I proposed earlier this day phase taking me out instead of Claws - he did pretty well after I was killed during the previous game and is more likely than I am to be able to contribute more effectively to a game such as this.

VoidKitten said:

And you think Claws is just being run up? Can you touch on that some more? What about him makes you think more towny than scummy, if ya don't mind.

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The main things that stand out to me.

The first and most irrelevant is that I was partnered with him during the previous game as a pair of masons, so there's some lingering bias there admittedly.

The second reason is that it usually takes a few day phases to truly get a proper read on someone like Claws. He's often read into as 'scummy' but it actually isn't the case as often as people seem to believe it to be.

The third reason is that I didn't necessarily like how the day phase started with a vote on Claws almost immediately. I'm giving Windward a pass since I haven't played with them before to my knowledge and I do think it's coming from the direction of not being familiar with Claws.

VoidKitten said:

So because Kareemah didn't vote you think she is scum?

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Not necessarily, though I don't have any strong reads on anyone other than Claws at the moment and people don't want me voting to sleep so...

VoidKitten said:

Why?

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It's a follow up vote based on my prior commentary.

Unvote: Sleep
Vote: Kareemah

WindwardAway said:

Why?

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No reason other than it being a recurring joke.

WindwardAway said:

Is this usually how Claws makes their reads/pushes?

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Yes. Claws is generally more worthy of suspicion when he's quiet and/or trying to avoid drawing attention to pretty much anyone.

Mazer said:

Anyone else you think is a better target?

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Kareemah
Windward
Peter
Futurehold

The first two had no vote out back on D1 and the latter two have been notably lacking in posts. Understandable if they got busy, of course and I won't pretend to be much better with my own contributions thus far.

I don't get the impression that Claws is scum but rather being exploited as a potential easy target so if you want to go with me instead, go ahead.

Mazer said:

Because that's how we typically go day 1, and your vote would have potential to be piled onto. That would be a mistake this game.

Why mtr over people who haven't voted yet you mentioned? Are you seeing the same potential yell as jarrod.

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I was planning to wait to see if there was anyone who didn't have a vote out there but since MTR decided to vote for me I figured I'd return the favour. It's petty, but I typically don't like D1 since it's either going to be a complete shot in the dark or - in a different setup - a vote to sleep.

Personally speaking I don't have any specific strong feelings one way or another towards any player at the moment.

Unvote: Sleep
Vote: MTR

See? I cast a proper vote.

It was quite obviously a joke vote so I'm not sure why I'm being voted for that...

Kind of strange, really, especially since there's players who have yet to vote at all.

Hello, everyone!