Fingers of Suspicion

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  1. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Sad that Art isn't posting. It is not like they have anything to lose.
  2. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I only played maybe 3 VK games that were made like his. I dont have much experience either. I just read writeup text and get ideas.
  3. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    So, @GrumpyCat, could it be that Morrison's action only hid the scum from the writeup, replacing them with town who had also acted, and was not able to prevent trackers/watchers from seeing who really acted?
    I thought scum were hiding from writeup, tracks and watches. In such case SubZero shouldn't be able to see Art.

    If it only his scum from writeup then Art can still be scum. He can only be Matthieu right? I don't know to confirm it unless Matthieu appears in a writeup. If so it should technically clear Art.
  4. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    This is scum there is no other way.

    Vote: Twintania
  5. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Click an arrow for that post.
  6. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    It didnt fully copy sorry
  7. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    5. CWE watches Sora. Sends me a result. SubZero gets it from bus drive. Says Sora was visited by Clown.
    If SubZero saw Art then Art is not supremacy. Claimed 3puppies, said he was mind controled.No reason to lie.
  8. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Hey Jack if you are around tell me who do you think is more scummy. Bacon or Sephiroth.
  9. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I claim I had a scum read on twintania.
  10. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I am not claiming anything right?
  11. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Morrison - unsure what this action was. Allow fluidity between members? (anyone can do any of the other team members actions?)
    Pablo - Motivated Sephiorth
    Morrison - Killed SubZero
    Marack - RB Alysrazor
    Lora - attempted to do something to Moana
    Tildey - Jailed Hulk
    Diva - RB Medivh
    Badger - Copped/Rolecopped Twin
    Firebart - Tarot card stuff
    Drey - Watched SZ for messages
    Listo - Killed Alysrazor
    Mechanicaly looks very well for Hulk. If scum he can only be Matthieu unless it is Art. Or Morrison if they could kill from jail.
  12. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Dont we want to wait for Alysrazors fabled VCA?
  13. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Can you point to what mech cleared him?
    I can. If he wants to be cleared.
  14. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Does anyone trust SolidSnake at this point btw?
    How you gonna sus Solidsnake at this point? Basically mech clear unless some weird shit going on

    Vote: Alysrazor
  15. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    If peach is town mind this.
  16. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    What do you think about my scum list? Do you
    Day 2 Vote Count:

    PrincessPeach - 4 (JackSparrow #590, Twintania #822, Bacon #881, Medivh #887)
    Applejack - 4 (HulkHogan #611, Arceus #898, Moana #934, GrumpyCat #966)
    Croissant - 4 (Sora #940, Sephiroth #954, SubZero #957, Rikishi #963)
    ArtTheClown - 2 (MasterChief #752, Hades #900)
    Sora - 2 (PrincessPeach #644, Pikachu #831)
    Gibbs - 2 (XavierWoods #655, Croissant #933)

    Not Voting: Alysrazor, Applejack, ArtTheClown, Gibbs, SolidSnake #915
    I am not good at wagonomics but I still believe that Applejack was a right choice here. Instead they are out of sight and we get 3 days of peach trains.
  17. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Whats the case on them?
  18. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    That they lied about knowing croissant was stronger role then them. or that there is a resistance to therir train. I am not sure i follow.
  19. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I'm not talking about just general scummy playstyle. I mean the fact Peach has shown no actual desire to solve ever since Sora was confirmed clean and Croissant flipped. ON TOP of the situational aspect that looks like scum didn't want Peach to die.
    I think after being a target 3rd day in row they dont care anymore.
  20. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Are you not at all concerned about her lack of real participation in the face of pretending like she's participating? Or the fact that's she was a counterwagon that twice was taken over by late stage voters? The fact that a very select few actually bit on Peach all day yesterday? You don't think if Peach was scum, that her wagon would have gained more traction as an alternative to Hades? That's like carte blanche for scum to be able to have an "I told you so," moment.
    Peach playstyle was scummy more often than not, but there were times that mattered when their posts came from town mindset.

    I can be more or less scummy too. Depends on a game and stiuation. It doesnt make players mafia. There are reasons to how people will play.
  21. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    So you think Peach is town?
    I want to believe Peach is town because otherwise I was wrong and I dont like to be wrong. feels bad.
  22. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Also, reading this description means I was completely wrong on who I thought you were.
    I cant tell you who I am but self target is not allowed. Read writeup, should help if you have a spreadsheet or someting.
  23. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Yeah it was ok.
  24. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I think it would make a better CFD vote than an early day vote but if you want to save Peach then join. or give better alternative.

    Vote: Medivh

    Unhelpful. Random. Wont solve this game.
  25. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    @ArtTheClown , can you share why you were targeted by Listo? I think you voted, but I am not sure if you contributed the recommended min 5 posts.
    Two players marked for not posting were Snake and Sauron. Listo kill looks more like vigi kill to me. Maybe they can't use lurkerkill 2 night in a row. Or they just felt lucky on Art.
  26. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Maybe later
    Unvote:
  27. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    We need the power of all you Hulkamaniacs to flow through these pythons. Yeah don’t rush the vote dudes, meet the criteria first brother!
    Vote: HulkHogan
  28. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Let's hear everyone's theories for who else is scum. Let's not make this all about PrincessPeach.
    Alysrazor, Beacon, Hulk, Sauron, Twintania. I think there is like 3+ scum there.
    And if it was Peach all along then fuck me.
  29. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I think the action on grumpy cat was an attempt to stop someone who might have switched.
    I thought what was the point of silence but I cant find any purpose for it. I am not really a big pusher until mid-late game.

    And it would not prevent me from switching. I was still allowed to make 1 vote and scum should be aware of that.

    I could have switched just fine. But not on Peach instead of Hades.
  30. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    the cynic in me doesnt want to rule out the possibility of scum having a shield or defence or whatever to save themself from the game had they failed the rock paper scissors (as seen with morrison) and it was all just for show.
    But scum could kill town with this right? Or at least try. And they sacrificed that and a vest to ... make Moana look towny?? Not saying thats impossible but its like sci-fi world.
  31. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    My take on night actions.

    1. 3puppies bus drives me and SubZero. Not an expert on night action priority but bus drive is usually pretty high up there so i start with this.
    2. Robozerim tries to kill me(?) but goes to SubZero instead. Fails to kill.
    3. Then Robozerim tries to protect Sauron. Why?? Why protect an afker that replaced an afker. Because they make 1 post, said they will post some time next day. And Robozerim is like - This guy will post must be protected. Where is so much wrong with what Robo is trying to do here.
    4. 3puppies kills Sora. Answer to why this happens comes later.
    5. CWE watches Sora. Sends me a result. SubZero gets it from bus drive. Says Sora was visited by Clown.
    covered the land in pure darkness, ensuring the Supremacy wouldn’t be seen tonight.
    If SubZero saw Art then Art is not supremacy. Claimed 3puppies, said he was mind controled.No reason to lie.

    6. Dreyski was to spy on SubZero but spies on me instead (bus drive). I have no idea what that action did.
    7. Diablo buffed Sauron. Like seriously? There is something wrong going on here. Like come on.
    8. Listo kills Art. Vigi shot based on some gutfeel maybe. Not a bad shot. I mean bad because it was on town but thats hind sight.

    If there are parts I missed or got wrong let me know.
  32. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    What tactic? Self voting to look towny?
  33. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    What about Alysrazor and Arceus? These two have completely flown under my radar.
    I like Acerus' posts and get good vibes from their attitude overall. town lean.

    Alys? Who the fuck is Alys? I can get on board of bagging Alys.
  34. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Peach is being super unhelpful but our leading posters think she's town, I could see a case for jester but don't know if vk uses them
    Does it matter? We aren't voting jester either way, right? They are not a threat. Even if there are no malicious consequenses after jester yeet it is still a waste of time.
  35. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    In other words noone can hammer with modified majority unless day timer runs out.
  36. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    if the current modified majority is 5, it doesn't make sense to hammer right now. i am curious about hades. in addition to subzero and sora, i also tend to feel good about grumpycat.
    Modified majority doesnt matter untill EoD. There is no need to consider it right now.
  37. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    nothing wrong with me that i'm aware of. except things that are normally wrong with me: impatience and crazy theories.
    crazy theories are great I have them all the time. they are often wrorng but still great.
  38. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Welcome back.

    Is there anything wrong with you after last night? Dont answer is this is considered claiming.

    I only played 2 rajah style games before, I don't know exactyly what is allowed here.
  39. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Lol sorry I stopped roleplaing ... mostly.

    But it is d3 ;p
  40. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I am voting Medivh too. just not right now.
  41. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    The problem I have with Hades is he was left with one vote on D1, so he would have had only a 25% survival rate. Not sure if his scum teammates would have done that to him.
    I have the same problem. If scum team are experienced players with so much influence then it brings town points to hades.

    If they are inorganised bunch of inactives then it doesnt mean much and hades was abandoned
  42. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Vote: Hades

    Lurkerkiller sheepcat attack.

    But it is d3 and I would rather not wait until 6h before eod.
  43. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    He trusts you 100% kindof the same.
    Why is that still here i didnt click post reply lol
  44. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Wait is he? Maybe my insanely keen eyesight is trying to trick me.
  45. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Are you shaming Subzero? He is 100% sure you are town. :)
  46. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Looks like 3 players who think peach is town trying to convince each other that peach is town:)
  47. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I don't think Peach actually knew and just thought Croissant was town regardless of her alignment
    They could think so but couldnt be sure.
    Would someone that is 100% town sacrifice themselves for someone that is say 90% town and assume they are more powerful role than they are?

    Sounds weird to me but there are different playstyles and different people i guess
  48. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Quick qustion Sora do you have an idea how Medivh could be as a player or do you want to play without such connections impacting the game?
  49. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Wait damnit i would have to make 5 posts. :bs:
  50. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    At least you can make a point with haikus even if that sure is annoying. If I got that I would not post. Maybe in a desperate situation.
  51. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I was curious if Sephiroth was blown to china and wont be able to post vote or be voted on. It appears he can be voted on though.

    Not a vote for today, leave them be. Must be anoying enough to not be able to play.
  52. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Do you still think this is a possibility?
    Do jesters usually appear blue or would they be like purple?
  53. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    What do you think of Hulk?
    Tone wise - neurtal but I think Hulk might have some scum equity.

    I still have scumlean on Apple slot and if they were togeter Hulk's vote on a possibly doomed partner could be a ruse to make them look towny later.

    Also Pikachu wasn't too fond of them.
  54. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I mean voing wise.
  55. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Is your vote on Hulk serious? Who else would you vote?
    Aren't you interested in Hulk at all or just prefer Hades?
  56. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Unvote:
  57. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Key points from Pikachu ISO imo.

    Doesn't like Hulk.
    Doesn't want to vote Twintania.
    Then not impressed with Twintania.
    Heart says Hulk is scum.
    Votes Sora.
    Not against Applejack yeet.
    Doesn't like sleep.
    Vibes on Sora aren't good.
  58. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Sabi - this is the 2nd night in a row they are pulling tarot cards. No clue what this could be. (Was Gibbs, dead scum)
    Gibbs, playing as Sabi, the Supremacy Bookie, has been killed. Actual Poster: Jarrod

    From Hogwarts game:

    1x Bookie You can guess who will be eliminated during the next day phase. If you are correct, you will gain a single night kill.

    They didn't guess, no Sabi kill.
    Too bad they didn't vote they would most likely vote town.
  59. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Lol that was awful. :freak:
  60. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Righteous and pure Princess' heart is.
    Obediend the cat will now.
    Try to scrach the Princess againg wont try.
  61. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Will ISO Pikachu to see if there is anything that could have spooked scum.
  62. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    MTR - Commuted Sephiorth?
    Roleblocked and silenced them for a day?

    I am curious if the intent was malicious or what. It says there was an accident involved maybe there is randomness in the end effect.

    Vote: Sephiroth

    This is just a test until votecount.
  63. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Peach, how did you know the Croissant had a better role than you? She flipped as a town bodyguard.

    Were you just being neighborly? Don't claim, but I think it's okay if you say something like I'm probably on the right track, or I have more to figure out.
    Theory time:

    Peach can talk to players at night. They need to submit target beforehand as day action. Mass rb affects only night actions so that worked.
    Croissant told her their role (if claiming is allowed in such scernario). They could lie if they were scum but as town you either tell the truth or say you wont tell anything.
    Peach got town read on Croissant in the end so they had a way to compare roles.

    Do you like theories Peach or do you think theorising is stupid?
  64. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Alright then. We can speculate modkill mechanics but there is no way to really tell and I am almost certain VK wont explain those.

    I don't think that gets us anywhere anyways. I am not a fan of modkills in general they almost always mean worse experience for players or game in general.
  65. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Because there is a character called Listo who from what I understand decides on inactive kill. Do you think this is VK's char?
    Did VK rez Snake then? If so than maybe but thats meh.
    Otherwise why would VK modkill people if there is a character specifically for that.
  66. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Vote: PrincessPeach
  67. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    aside from it being an inactive that may get dealt with from a mechanic perspective.
    How can I know it is them that will be killed from afk mechanic? What if it has limited charges?
  68. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I don't think Jack is the way today. But worth poking at.

    Same with GrumpyCat once that immunity is up.
    You can poke me with immunity too. Its not like I need to have votes on me to answer questions.
  69. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    @GrumpyCat Whatchu thinkin'?
    I don't like Croissant yeet, No problem yeeting Peach.

    I like it where I am actually but will certainly switch to get modified majority.

    There are players I am not going to vote, but there is no interest in them anyway.
  70. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    They only need to make an appearance before eod.
  71. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    If that would be the case then fine. But there is like a 0 poster.
  72. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    You think that mechanic will kill like 5 people at once?
  73. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I feel like I am a bit pocketed by Croissant. They stayed on me until the end of D1 and didn't budge even if there was quite a lot of talk about them around eod.

    There is a chance they just felt safe as they knew other scum won't let them go down. I am torn here. Like that Croissant.

    Vote: Applejack

    I feel good about those on that train and I feel utterly meh at best about apple. Won't be missed.
  74. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Not sure if this was overlooked, but it got no reply. Does our lovely game runner commonly set up games with multiple rez?
    There was 1 rez in Harry Potter game and once it was used flips started to appear.

    Also it was Snake that died not Subzero.
  75. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Well ok then.
    Anyone inactive? Could be Scum hiding.
    Could be but inactives can be killed for not reaching required post quota.

    Barely actives are better choice here imo. I am starting to worry that there are scum within lurkerinos.
  76. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Vote: Sleep

    This is the way and no one will convince me otherwise
    Sorry Mando. It isn't.

    Sadly I rolled 1 on persuasion skill at birth.
  77. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    *Looks up from instruction manual*

    I have almost finished assembling the Fluffy Tickler 3,000. I would like to test it on someone tonight. Any volunteers?
    I already have plans for tonight but we can arrange it for next night maybe. Try it somewhere else instead I am not beta testing for free.

    Unvote:
  78. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I'm 99% sure who Moana is. Same with Rikishi.
    :squint::squint::squint:
  79. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    OK I'm not gonna push too hard bc I'm gonna get read bad for that, but unless there is more info I don't have this doubt is just obligatory posting when we got the 30 minute warning and idk if that's enough for a lynch for me, like I guess if that's the only thing we have? But idk
    Thats totally fine. Its not like I have a scum read on them. I have no read actually.
    But I would like to have.
  80. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    When in doubt ... remove doubt.

    Vote: Twintania
  81. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    That is a funky role, I'm guessing there will be some more uncommon roles
    Oh so that was actually a modified SK. Strange, writeup says she freed herself and went to look for someone, but its not like someone died.
  82. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Lmao void used to be cereal? That'd good
    There is still cereal on kitten cave discord avatar.
  83. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I sure got pocketed by Jack and Croissant. They could unvote me yesterday and leave me at 1 vote. got me a bit paranoid actually. But they stayed till the end.

    I know thats not much of a read, but still nice of them.
  84. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    You can call me Scorpion now
    I am just a Noob Saibot.
  85. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Its a character in the writeup in red. Calm down its not a slip.
  86. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Or if it's a watch then ScumZero could still be a thing. Hmm
    But who would scum expect to catch if there was a mass block. Unless this lasts for the rest of a game.
  87. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Last with 1 was the last person to get a vote for them.
    Last with 2 was the last person to get a second vote.
    Does NOT look random to me.
    Then why is Alysrazor above Subzero if Alysrazor got vote later (422) than Subzero (331).

    Maybe VK only sorted last players and left the rest as is.
  88. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    We could likely make some reasonable guesses. Many of us been playing these games for a long while
    I was thinking if I should try to connect fake accounts with real players but decided to go with the spirit of the game and treat everyone like bunch of random nobodies.

    (But my brain is trying to make connections regardless)
  89. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I believe so.

    I took a look at how those with same number of votes are aranged and i can't find a pattern.

    Looks random, doesn't have much to do with voting/unvoting order.
  90. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Snake not voting or unvoting to save himself is strange, but I don't know if it means much. Wouldn't anyone have reason to save themself in that scenario no matter what they are?
    Maybe if Hades or the Woods guy were their more powerful scumbuddy or something.

    But in that case they could vote on them, bring them to 2 votes and Snake would be fine at 0.
  91. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I don't know about Kumquat but I think you were tryharding D1 way too much than most scum find necessary.
    In most cases that is a town tell. Not a guarantee but a good start.
  92. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    You post a lot. Thats a big no no as well. But worry not, you already told them Kumkwat is the best choice so thats what they are going to do.
  93. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I'm currently reading Riki as the N1 kill.
    Yeah they seem like one of the spreadsheeting types. From what I remember scum hate those.

    I mean it's not like scum need to kill them right away but still better to take use of annonimity and not reveal that someone is good with those.
  94. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I also think that there is a reason's that we did not get a flip, and that it means there may be a resurrection role. If anyone has it, given the nature of the apparent scum action ending the day early, it seems pretty safe to presume that the kill was a townie. And so are Woods and Hades, the others scum left on the bottom.
    This looks like a repeat from Harry Potter game with no flips early and a ressurect later alright.

    I also think its safe to assume Snake was town here. Hard to believe mafia Snake would not be aware of most/least vote mechanic. He was the only one on his train with a self vote.
    If he simply unvoted he would be safe on 0 votes.
  95. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Vote: Grumpycat
  96. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Yeah VoidyCat bro what happens to ties?
  97. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    I am starting to think same way. 25% chance for kill otherwise delayed yeet with redeem chance.

    Unvote:
  98. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    The only rules that matter are these.
    What a man can do and what a man cant do.
    Man can keep their vote on me. Unless told otherwise.
  99. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    It doest apply to those with 0 votes. Needs to be 1 vote at least.
  100. GrumpyCat

    Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

    Alternatively make a last second vote on someone with 0 votes and they are dead. In most cases I guess. But oh boy that would be scummy.
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