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Matthieu said:

Nah, it's fine. I wasn't actually frustrated or wanting to give up my position as a moderator. I just knew that my usual tactics wouldn't work since nobody was buying it so I decided to go a step further with the dramatics in the hope that it'd help my team win or at least distract away from them somewhat.

In hindsight, it wasn't the smartest plan after all so I'm sorry if there's any bad blood over it. Scum were incredibly unlucky and in an unusual position where at one point Insaner guessed exactly who was on the team. With so many players steadily cleared as 'almost certainly town' I just didn't know what else to do.

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Lmao

Still not scum-sided enough

Anything to not be on the same team as Foxxi really

I also don't think there is much reason to think purple isn's a benign third party. They haven't killed anybody and I think that the lightning rod effect on N2 excludes them from being something like an arsonist. Cult also seems unlikely as there is no evidence of them multiplying. However, on the chance that it is a cult then I would like to say that I would gladly join their team if they chose to recruit me and I promise to be a great asset to their team and contribute a lot to their glorious victory!

I'm a little paranoid of scum having yeet immunity on someone to go along with anyone asking for a thunderdome between themselves and another person

Insaner said:

If I was in F5 and we had two years to get a wolf and people told me that one of those would have to be me

I really don't know if I would want the other one to be Peter instead of Tildey

Like I think the fact that Peter voted to yeet Claws and Tildey did the opposite has to count for something

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Two yeets*

What's Petet's history with bussing? Asking people not named Foxxi here

If I was in F5 and we had two years to get a wolf and people told me that one of those would have to be me

I really don't know if I would want the other one to be Peter instead of Tildey

Like I think the fact that Peter voted to yeet Claws and Tildey did the opposite has to count for something

Do you think you are dying this game?

Badger said:

I know there is going to be a lot of questions and votes but do please hear me out…

Okay first person I definitely need to address is Grumpycat I am very very sorry. I genuinely feel fucking horrible about what happened.

However when re-reading the N1 actions I had jumped to the wrong conclusion and his pink GIF Claws post saying I was pink made me paranoid. It was a fuck up….just as big as if not more so in Mafia Universe Champs when I thought Marl was being sus and I shot him. I’ve had a horrible game so far and trying my best to make things right.

I believe I now have a better understanding in my info and especially given what happened after Grumpy’s will role reveal my lean right now at the moment is on Jarrod. I am not entirely confident in this but given what happened with our vote steals I think I might know what he has been up to. I could very well be wrong and appreciate folks are not going to buy this right away but I have been genuinely trying to solve.

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Wait Badger played in Champs? Which year was it?

I'm pretty sure Val subbed into Blind Ninja's slot actually

Insaner said:

I'm fact I think there's a good chance that the mafia team here are just the people who were mafia in that game minus myself :D

I don't remember if Matthew was in that game

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I forgot Val was on that team and is also playing here

I'm not currently scum reading Val but I guess there's a chance

I don't know if someone would get confirmed in the writeup like that though

PsychoSoldier said:

NIGHT THREE

Shigesato Itoi was trying to set up an interview to shut down the people who criticized Earthbound, but last minute the interviewer decided to call it off.

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Reading this again, and assuming that yesterday's save on BN was done by purple, it sounds like reds may have tried to make one of them vote immune and possibly got stopped.

If so, then if someone had a blocking action and used it last night then it's possible that their target is Shigesato Itoi or whatever.

Val the Moofia Boss said:

You think scum could be boldly claiming to have guilty information and trying to brute force town to lynch whoever they want and hope they achieve majority before town turna against them?

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That's what I would have done.

Frankly, I'm just not buying Graeham's claim at all.

That's not counting any potential extra kills or yeet delays they might still have.

Insaner said:

With 13 players alive and presumably 4 scum, if mafia were able to go 1 for 1 three times, successfully killing 1 person each night, they would reach parity in F5. So that's not something I wouldn't expect scum to do.

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Or rather after a successful yeet in F5

With 13 players alive and presumably 4 scum, if mafia were able to go 1 for 1 three times, successfully killing 1 person each night, they would reach parity in F5. So that's not something I wouldn't expect scum to do.

Badger said:

If he keeps going down that rabbit hole, he can have some of the egg I’m still wiping off my face

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My understanding is that this is the "this is true or I'm mafia" type of situation

Badger said:

Also I know Matt said he’s been having migraines and allowing for that, but haven’t known him to be this active in a phase and supposedly confident on someone. I don’t know him as well as MMOC folks but this feels a little different except the “I’ll take a yeet” bit.

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He's claiming to have you confirmed as purple

Badger said:

I’m also reading Foxxi between the lines and have a theory but not going to speak for her.

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I had a role read on Foxxi from early in D1 but I have no idea if that was right or wrong lol

Insaner said:

This game reminds me so much of Mazer's game where I was scum and started bussing most of my team but got POEd anyway.

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I'm fact I think there's a good chance that the mafia team here are just the people who were mafia in that game minus myself :D

I don't remember if Matthew was in that game

This game reminds me so much of Mazer's game where I was scum and started bussing most of my team but got POEd anyway.

Nightingale said:

One: badger is town.

Two: any actions grumpy delayed - if any - were probably delayed no more than one night I'd imagine, so whatever he delayed N2 would have happened last night.

And again, the most important thing here: Badger is town.

BN/Future/Matthieu = scum
Insaner/peter -- one of these is the last one
Purple isn't hostile.

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Hey, it's progress.

Matthieu said:

I think we've been very lucky in regards to how night actions have played out and with Grumpy's role serving to delay night actions, the next night phase is potentially going to be brutal - hence the desperation for Badger to be excused for another day phase in order to take full advantage of that fact.

CWE didn't die during a night phase but at the end of a day phase.

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Sorry, just remember you had already answered that.

I'd rather not yeet anyone that is town if we can at all avoid it. I don't think town has the numbers to go 1 for 1 each time.

I understand that you want to go for someone you are sure of instead of going for an unknown. But why do you think we should go after a purple today as opposed to red?

Another thing that made me SUS of Matthew was that he was very quick to jump on Grumpy when Future was still an option.

Insaner said:

Or rather this part is what I was referring to thinking it could have caused the votes on Blind Ninja to be cancelled. But seeing as this is from N3 then maybe not?


Actually, I think that "stole the show with their shocking announcement" might be referring to it being a purple action. Could be a day action or even a part of lightning rod action N2, which just said that 2.5 hours (or however long it was) the top lead wagon would become vote immine.

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If yesterday's shenanigans were indeed a purple action then it seems unlikely to me that Badger's done it.

Which in turn makes me doubt Matthew's claim.

I'm not going to argue that there's more than 1 purple. I think you are probably right about that mainly because we haven't seen more than 1 purple action and it also wouldn't make sense numbers-wise.

Nightingale said:

I'm also of the opinion there is only one purple player, for a number of reasons.

The first and most recent: Grumpy's yeet. Anyone who might have been purple would have known that Grumpy wasn't.... so everyone that voted there thinking Badger had info is extremely unlikely to be purple - they'd more than likely have wanted to avoid it knowing it would probably look bad.

This is: Matthieu, BN, Drey, Val, future, MTR, Badger - and of course myself but whatever.
That leaves: jarrod, LDG, Tildey, Peter, Insaner

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But that reason to discount people as being purple is completely bollocks.

PsychoSoldier said:

NIGHT THREE

Shigesato Itoi was trying to set up an interview to shut down the people who criticized Earthbound, but last minute the interviewer decided to call it off.

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Or rather this part is what I was referring to thinking it could have caused the votes on Blind Ninja to be cancelled. But seeing as this is from N3 then maybe not?

PsychoSoldier said:

DAY THREE

Vote Count
8 - GrumpyCat (Matthieu, Nightingale, Blind Ninja, Dreyski, Mazer, Val the Moofia Boss, FutureHold, MTR)
2 - Badger (Peter Griffin, LemonDemonGirl)

Not Voting: Badger, GrumpyCat, Insaner, Jarrod1983, Tildey

----------

Everyone was still reeling from Sony’s announcement as the night came to an end. The event was overall such a success that the organizer’s handed out some sheets to everyone that attended to vote their favorite presentation of the night. The winner was no surprise, and it was unanimous that Sony Computer Entertainment stole the show with their shocking announcement.

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Actually, I think that "stole the show with their shocking announcement" might be referring to it being a purple action. Could be a day action or even a part of lightning rod action N2, which just said that 2.5 hours (or however long it was) the top lead wagon would become vote immine.

I'm wondering if there's a chance BN could be purple and scum really did just give him vote immunity for the lols. Seeing as he is claiming to be blocked and there was no purple action last night.

Red*

Blind Ninja said:

Im not scum. And dont have any results that can move the vote.

Im sure scum did it to paint me red. Just going to give them more free room to play the game.

Also not surprised I was blocked last night. Since I could have potentially proven my worth to town.

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Well, without knowing whose action it was exactly, I don't think scum would have done it if Badger was on their team. I think the first paragraph of the night post might suggest it was a red action though.

Who do you think the read members are?

Part of the reason for my cheeky tone though was because I wanted to highlight the difference in how Foxxi is reacting to Badger being wrong about something vs how she has reacted to me being wrong about something.

Badger was generally being towny, then he had a read that was wrong, and pushed it through to cause a miselemination of Grumpy instead of what was very likely to be a Future yeet. And he can be forgiven.

I had a read that was wrong, didn't even push for it that hard, didn't end up causing a miselimination, mafia got yeeted. Have stayed active and posted agreeable content that became the narrative for the following day, looks extremely likely like I accurately called out at minimum 2 mafia members at SoD, before anyone else did, before Mazer's info, before the shenanigans with BN's vote immunity. And yet I am in the same tier for Foxxi as two near outed wolves.

Maybe it's the order in which things have occured that counts and she is just going with her first impression?

Blind Ninja said:

Its the tone difference between your interactions. With me, didnt seem like BoD

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Well, my reads on you and Badger ARE different. I don't actually view his stunt yesterday as scummy even. It just sounds like he thought he was onto something and talking himself into it. And I liked his engagement otherwise. But having a scum read on you doesn't mean not giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I kinda think you're outed today though after what happened yesterday with the votes.

Blind Ninja said:

Just gonna point this out... Willing to give badger benefit of the doubt on his fuck up... But wasnt willing to give me one

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What made you think I wasn't willing yo give you the benefit of the doubt? I came into D3 suspecting you very heavily but I wasn't saying "BN is 100% scum". I was saying that IF scum were trying to save Claws then your play on D3 fit that description. But the possibility remained for me that you were town. I took the day to watch and see which person in my 4-person Poe I wanted to end up on. And even voted Tildey for the large part of the day.

I feel like you were mostly just pleading for yourself yesterday. There's also an issue of you being saved from votes yesterday. What do you think was up with that?

I'm going to assume it is

Do a triple back flip discreetly if that is not the case

Matthieu said:

My concern is that there's a red and purple faction, something Mazer drew attention to only to wind up dead and now despite getting a town aligned player yeeted - right at the end of the day phase, no less - I'm being asked to give Badger a second chance.

I can't claim though I'm confident that Badger is the way to go today. Confident enough to eat a yeet or a vigil kill if I'm wrong.

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Sounds like it is info from your role.

Matthieu said:

I think we've been very lucky in regards to how night actions have played out and with Grumpy's role serving to delay night actions, the next night phase is potentially going to be brutal - hence the desperation for Badger to be excused for another day phase in order to take full advantage of that fact.

CWE didn't die during a night phase but at the end of a day phase.

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Is it info from your role on Badger or was it your inference from the mod posts?

Badger said:

I know there is going to be a lot of questions and votes but do please hear me out…

Okay first person I definitely need to address is Grumpycat I am very very sorry. I genuinely feel fucking horrible about what happened.

However when re-reading the N1 actions I had jumped to the wrong conclusion and his pink GIF Claws post saying I was pink made me paranoid. It was a fuck up….just as big as if not more so in Mafia Universe Champs when I thought Marl was being sus and I shot him. I’ve had a horrible game so far and trying my best to make things right.

I believe I now have a better understanding in my info and especially given what happened after Grumpy’s will role reveal my lean right now at the moment is on Jarrod. I am not entirely confident in this but given what happened with our vote steals I think I might know what he has been up to. I could very well be wrong and appreciate folks are not going to buy this right away but I have been genuinely trying to solve.

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For the record, Grumpy told people to ignore his N2 result. Do you think Jarrod used the lightning rod to pull Grumpy's action onto him?

Matthieu said:

Badger's purple. I'm willing to soak a yeet today if that is what it takes to finally get people to see sense. I'm starting to suspect that Nightingale is purple as well. This is probably going to be another game where ballsy scum pretend to be town and cruise to victory which I hope isn't the case but the more switched on players such as CWE, Void and Mazer are ending up dead to night kills and Grumpy was the victim of a pretty obvious and desperate last minute gamble at a misyeet.

At the very least you'd expect more hesitation, right? But there isn't much - just the usual 'haha just badger things' as if scum aren't going to pull any stunt necessary and lie in order to win.



You're probably one of the next to be taken out at night or misyeeted because you're vocal with the seeds of suspicion being cast your way.

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I can see it as a possibility that Badger's purple. I don't think he is red given that he was the counter wagon to Blind Ninja, who is very likely a red and was saved yesterday.

Why do you think purple is a priority over red? I haven't seen them killing anyone so far...

Nightingale said:

BN/Future/Matthieu/Insaner -- with an outside poe of peter/MTR

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At this point I'm just praying wolves will shoot you by the time you come around to yeeting me so I will hopefully have a better chance of convincing more reasonable people.

Matthew - to be clear, do you suspect Badger of being red or purple? Or just anti-town?

Looks like Badger f-ed up proper well yesterday but hey it's alright everyone makes mistakes right let's not dwell on it to much

Vote: FutureHold/VOTE]

It's a popular tactic in the lands where I'm headed from

For anyone that is wondering what the hell just happened

I got 3 letters

ATE

Vote: BlindNinja

I just thought you'd never ask

Mazer said:

@Dreyski

It's possible that the disapprovals are resonating with you more than they do other people. we both know that good scum can make rationalizations make sense on a lot of things. It doesn't mean it's disproven.

As an example, Voting nightingale without any votes on you and just vetting....regardless of explanation offered, would you say it's unfair that people think it looks bad. Cause regardless of rhetoric, it looks like you took the first option to get off potentially helpful flips.

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Mazer said:

Who all can't vote today? Badger, Jarrod, and mtr?

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Oh, that's like

3 town probably

So you guys want my vote now, huh?

Nightingale said:

At this point I feel like you're just openwolfing =\

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Call someone evil long enough, and they'll make an honest person out of you.

Nightingale said:

Once again. You aren't even being considered for yeet today. Why is it so important to you that I change my mind right here and now? Why is your reaction to not being blindly taken at your word to become actively anti-town? How is that helping anything?

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Why would I vote to remove one of the few people that won't just vote me later when all the wolves are gone

Vote: vote Badger

Ayy lmaoo

Badger said:

Talk to someone that isn’t Foxxi for a change and going to ask you a straightforward question.

How do you really feel about BN and Mazer’s info?

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I buy it. I came into D3 thinking BN was very likely to be mafia. So it didn't take much to convince me.

Nightingale said:

O.o yeah I'm sus of you...I've said how I feel about what has happened and you've given explanations. I can see it either way right now - maybe my feelings are right, or maybe I've conf biased myself into seeing you as scum.....which is why I'm not actively saying you should be yeeted. Why is it so important to you that my mind changes on you right now without additional information, when I'm not even going after you?

And why would you just lash out at me like this if you are actually town, just because I am unsure?

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Once again

The answer to your question lies in the post you're quoting.

You present some reasons that make you think I'm mafia.

I disprove them.

You go "sure but it doesn't clear you"

I just don't feel like I'm being given a fair shake here, is all.

Since nothing I say or do apparently no longer matters to people

Vote: Nightingale

Cause I might as well

Mazer said:

Honestly, Insaner moving from Badger to future makes me feel a little better about future.

Not good. Just better.

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lol

I was responding to Foxxi, not you.

It's true you haven't seen me as a wolf in a long time, but I find it hard to wrap my head around you having that solid of a read on me at the very beginning of D2 when it was clear even well into the day that most people didn't know what to make of me.

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I reiterate again that I have town read you pretty early in every game I played with you where I was town. It didn't make me a wolf then and it doesn't make me a wolf now.

The issue I have with you dropping your vote on drey because you felt better about him is that.... I'm not sure how to put this without it sounding like "you didn't do what I wanted you to" - but that isn't what I mean.... but like... I had a logical argument: of a limited two choices that have to be picked from, and no one else had a scum read on either, why not go with *some* kind of sus read over *nothing*? You say you'd started to doubt your own read of claws because of what I said, but you still ended up sitting on the sidelines... which while not being in the way of the yeet, still made it possible it could have ended up going the other way if even just a couple of other town had been less apathetic.

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I have several things I want to say in response to that.

1) I unvoted not long before going to bed for the night and I wasn't going to change my vote after that.

2) I was the main person who was resisting the Claws yeet. By dropping my support, I made it so that there was no longer anyone pushing for a case for other villagers to get behind, essentially condemning Claws.

3) When I unvoted I believe it made the trains 6-2. I figured that with this spread and you campaigning for Claws as hard as you did he was very likely going to get yeeted anyway.

4) I thought that if I had made the votes 7-2 then it would seal the deal right then and there. I wanted there to be some lingering hope for potentially changing the result of the yeet in case Claws was mafia so that any would be partners would decide to go for it and show their hand. I knew that it would also create the risk of the yeet actually going the wrong way but I thought this that risk was very small and it was worth it.

This is consistent with the rest of my play this game as I have been deliberately playing for info almost the entire time.

5) "People should have done what I wanted because I wanted it" is not a logical argument.

"Not considering my thoughts" isn't a scum tell and you know that. There is a difference between engaging someone, hearing what they say and genuinely responding to it, and just dismissing it because it doesn't fit the world you want - the latter is something wolves do and you are aware of that - and there is a difference in how arguing with someone feels between the two.

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I'm not exactly sure what this rant is all about because I have described an instance of me considering your thoughts in my previous reply.

Nightingale said:

And again - I liked your SoD post for the most part. And as you can see I'm not currently trying to drag you to the gallows. I'm aware that I could be conf biasing myself into reading you as scum here.... but there's also the fact that I feel better about most other people at the moment.

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You have put me in your bottom pile along with Future and BN who you are trying to kill to today. My assumption is that same tier means similar feelings.

Just wanted to state it for the posterity that I'm totally in favor of Future and BN getting the heat they are getting now. People can consider my vote to effectively be on all 4 of the people in my immediate Poe pile and that regardless of which one of them goes today I would very likely want others from it gone on future days anyway.

BTW I caught that Mazer was hinting at some sort of track/watch result when he listed 7 good characters and 6 bad ones and said that BN was more likely to be bad than not but decided not to comment on that then and let it play out.

I'm also acknowledging that Jarrod is claiming an innocent result on Mazer and I don't have reason to doubt it really. In fact I'm not actually scum reading anyone in my outer Poe pile which just makes me want to cross my fingers that I got all the reds in my primary Poe otherwise I will probably be at a loss for where to look.

Nightingale said:

You've fooled me before. The post you made at SoD is the only thing I've liked from you. I hate all of your D2. From starting off saying you actually had a real read on Void and that you expected a bunch of people who largely don't know you well to have somehow known that, then using that as an argument to think claws had a real read, to how you seemed to assume I was town and never had any paranoia about me like I've had about you, to the comment asking if I was happy which just felt so bitter when I re-read over night after claws flip, to then walking back and saying you didn't really feel that strongly you just wanted to create tension but never tried to pull anyone else into the discussion - just argue with me, to then walking away from the whole thing which felt resigned.

None of the arguing you did with me ever felt like you were considering and weighing my thoughts - it didn't feel like you were genuinely trying to analyze or solve anything at all.

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Alright, let me actually address this point by point.

From starting off saying you actually had a real read on Void and that you expected a bunch of people who largely don't know you well to have somehow known that

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Well, the alternative would be that I actually was just meme pushing Void... Which seemed like such an insane idea to me that I couldn't imagine that anyone would actually think that I was doing that and that I needed to clarify that yes, my vote indeed represented a real read. Just call it a cultural difference, I guess?

, to how you seemed to assume I was town and never had any paranoia about me like I've had about you

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Let me put it this way. The only game where I actually saw you as mafia was a game on MU some 2-3 years ago which I was checking a couple of times while you were playing. In that game you were completely frozen and sad as mafia. So despite never actually playing with scum you in a game I always sort of written you off as a polarized player. Sometimes I have some paranoia about you very early in the game (as I remind you I also had paranoia about you here on D1) but I always have the townread on you by 2/3 into D1 at the latest. I dare you to refer me to a game where this has not been the case and I was town.

to the comment asking if I was happy which just felt so bitter when I re-read over night after claws flip

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You have completely misread the tone of that remark. The way I meant it was more like, hey Foxxi, so it looks like you'll be getting your way here, can we be friends again? As I have been saying, I did not care about our argument nearly as much as you did.

to then walking back and saying you didn't really feel that strongly you just wanted to create tension but never tried to pull anyone else into the discussion

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My discussion was an open invitation for anyone to weigh in. I do not typically go around asking everybody "hey mate what do you think about xyz"

to then walking away from the whole thing which felt resigned.

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What would be the scum motivation for me to walk away from defending Claws? I may as well have committed to the defense at this point, especially since you were giving me a pass at the time by saying you understood my pov. I don't see any reason why I would be more likely to give up on my defense as mafia than as town.

Which part of my explanation that I dropped my defense due to feeling better about Dreyski being town sounds not believable to you?

None of the arguing you did with me ever felt like you were considering and weighing my thoughts

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You must have missed me saying that I thought you raised some reasonable points about how my townread on Claws may have been misguided, then. When you pointed out that Claws never actually proved that he had the same reasons for scumreading Void that I did and that I was effectively vibing with him over the lack of explanation I started doubting my own read. If you go back, you'll see that I stopped responding to you shortly after that. That was because I was weakened in my belief in that moment but wasn't ready to admit it due to wanting to see others weigh in first.

Also wow I didn't know that not considering your thoughts was a scum tell smh

it didn't feel like you were genuinely trying to analyze or solve anything at all.

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Well, is everything else I've done that doesn't have anything to do with Void or Claws just white noise to you then?

The post you made at SoD is the only thing I've liked from you. I hate all of your D2.

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No shit Foxxi. I've outlined what seems to be pretty much the consensus poe today, earlier than anyone else did.

Tell me this - what do you expect I should have been doing differently today as a villager from what I've done here?

Nightingale said:

You've fooled me before. The post you made at SoD is the only thing I've liked from you. I hate all of your D2. From starting off saying you actually had a real read on Void and that you expected a bunch of people who largely don't know you well to have somehow known that, then using that as an argument to think claws had a real read, to how you seemed to assume I was town and never had any paranoia about me like I've had about you, to the comment asking if I was happy which just felt so bitter when I re-read over night after claws flip, to then walking back and saying you didn't really feel that strongly you just wanted to create tension but never tried to pull anyone else into the discussion - just argue with me, to then walking away from the whole thing which felt resigned.

None of the arguing you did with me ever felt like you were considering and weighing my thoughts - it didn't feel like you were genuinely trying to analyze or solve anything at all.

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Sad times

How good do you think my wolf game is lol

GrumpyCat said:

I am not sure why you would think that.
General rule in an ordinary mafia game is that in order to win town need to find scum and yeet them.
Scum dont have to do anything other than not get yeeted. Almost evertything Claws did was an AtE beg to not get yeeted. Every post he made was making him scummier.
I played enough games with Claws to know that he will cling onto life with claws and that isnt exattly alignment indicative for him so I could give him a pass on that.
But that should generally ping experienced players as scummy.

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I don't know about that lol I tend to expect wolves in hard positions to just roll over and die but maybe that's just me

Well. People didn't agree with me when I was telling everyone that Void was scum on D1 or that Claws was town on D2. I just assume my arguments must have been not good enough and that it's a valid choice for people to not agree with me. It turned out I was wrong both times and people not agreeing with me was actually for the better :D

GrumpyCat said:

I am an awfull pusher and others dont join my trains. you could look at my previous games or even this one when i voted ldg d1 and got no interest even when one could argue it was as reasonable vote as sleeping. Make me feel stupid and even if i might not be i dont want to feel that way ;p

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Oh boy.

Insaner said:

I see no need for us to come to a consensus this early in the day. Just vote whoever you want. Then everyone can pick between the options.

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Part of why I voted Tildey was because I sensed you wanted to vote differently.

GrumpyCat said:

Come on dude. You pick 4 names I leave 3 out of them. You pick one from that and vote it. I sheep vote. Such a great deal.
And you pick tildey. hiss ;p

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I see no need for us to come to a consensus this early in the day. Just vote whoever you want. Then everyone can pick between the options.

GrumpyCat said:

But we both did as well didnt we?

I only played 1 game with tildey together and i dont think she is much of a busser so fine argument.

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True, but I think you have redeeming points and I will argue I do too.

You unvoted Dreyski before the momentum against Claws really solidified & when it made sense to unvote due to him coming to defend himself and not looking like a caught wolf.

As for myself, yeah I did town read Claws all the way lol. That one's on me. But if you look back at my debate with Foxxi I think it should be clear that I wasn't actually trying to win the argument against her but rather just play the devil's advocate and represent a different point of view. So that others could weigh in and potentially make themselves more readable as a result.

GrumpyCat said:

I kind of am.
ut I dont want to be a lone vote on someone like d1 so i am looking for a compromise.

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Let's just get some wagons going then and see what comes of it

Vote: Tildey

GrumpyCat said:

Didnt see anything scummy from her and I voted her almost entire last game until she got yeeted. My kind heart doesnt want it now (even if she was scum then).

What is the case here? thet she voted Dreyski and not Claws? my thought was that she was more comfortable with taht vote because she knows Dreyski longer than claws? not sure about that though.

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I pretty much outlined it in the post you are quoting.

"Tildey voted town over mafia = bad" is most of it

Insaner said:

Well, we now know that Foxxi was right about Claws and didn't for so I'm not sure how much I still believe this myself tbh

Of course, it could just be the case of both VK and Foxxi being right in their respective susses and scum being limited to picking one. But could also be somewhat of a wifom kill.

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Didn't die*

GrumpyCat said:

Just thought about this part. Now it becomes more likely as claws would be fine with VK kill so it could pass with two.

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Well, we now know that Foxxi was right about Claws and didn't for so I'm not sure how much I still believe this myself tbh

Of course, it could just be the case of both VK and Foxxi being right in their respective susses and scum being limited to picking one. But could also be somewhat of a wifom kill.

GrumpyCat said:

Calm down it doesnt have to be matthieu

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What is this in response to?

GrumpyCat said:

I like it this poe except tildey.

Anyone you would like to start with?

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I'm not terribly in the mood to "start" anything to be honest. I've outlined my thoughts as to which group of players should be the main subject of scrutiny for the next couple of days. Beyond that I'm just looking to hear what everyone else has to say.

Why don't you like Tildey being in the Poe? From 1 scum game I played with Tildey I've learned that she can be quite smooth with her posts and I also had the impression that she is staunchly opposed to bussing. She also focused a lot on discussing night actions and stuff. From what I recall of Tildey this game she didn't really start to post any opinions on players until her defence of Claws. It doesn't condemn her as mafia as she could just be a wrong townie. But IF Tildey was mafia in this game then I would imagine her playing pretty similar to how she played here which is why she is a part of my immediate poe.

GrumpyCat said:

I was curious who wants this game solved for them by results. Didnt plan to out it anyway.

But since poor toadie was curious too i will tell you.
As a result I know whitch player is almost certainly not scum. I have no reason to out my town lean just like that. Escpecially with that will system it will be outed even if i die.

Oh and just in case n2 thing wont be alignment indicative so pay no attention.

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That's wonderful to know!

Yeah was gonna say that there was also no scum kill at night so cheers to that

Could be because of something our purple kings did

GrumpyCat said:

You mean mechanically? Claws was mentioning a lawyer and it it also in a writeup so maybe.

Otherwise i dont know why it would specifically be cwe. Because he didnt swap when jarrod asked him to?

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Yeah it sounds like it could be a consequence of Claws death

CWE sounds like a revenge kill

Having a main mafia team who were sorta trying to save Claws as well as a smaller faction who were just chilling yesterday would be an interesting twist

GrumpyCat said:

I mean they are multiplying so thats more like a cult.

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Oh no

Nightingale said:

Before I do though, no clue how you read that Matthieu post at SoD as an attempt for a derp clear, he said nothing about assuming who did it only that he didn't the odds of two selected players both being scum

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I thought that was his implication that scum did it

But Matthew would be in my Poe regardless

Nightingale said:

Claws wagon does make more sense. Maybe I should go to bed.

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I wrote this post not long after waking up lol

Nightingale said:

I don't even know where to begin with this...

Okay. So. If claws told his team to bus him why would they jump on the drey wagon? If you're discarding that world and deciding the drey wagon is clean that means that any voting scum actually are bussing claws...? And you think the drey wagon is clean but then have both BN and Tildey who were voting drey in your poe?

And maybe it's just me, but your paragraph about BN sounds extremely bitter...

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Uh I clearly meant "Claws wagon" not "Drey wagon" lol

I'm not bitter Foxxi just having a laugh

Blind Ninja said:

Do you think im going that hard to defend my teammate? Im not that dense. I know when the flip occurs, puts the spotlight on me. I dont want that heat as scum.

I late vote in almost all games these days, aside from D1 matt vote for tradition

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I wouldn't describe your defence as "hard" tbh

Insaner said:

The biggest question mark on Dreyski wagon for me is PG. I doubt he would just vote Claws and peace out like that if they were partners. I think the only world where that happens is if Claws told his partners to just bus him right at the beginning of D2. In that world, I would expect for at least 1 other scum to jump on the Dreyski train behind him. I don't strongly feel that is the case so I am going to discard this possibility and assume that everyone on the Dreyski wagon is town for now.

I'm reading jarrod as the wrong townie on the counter wagon.

BN's scum equity went through the roof for being consistently opposed to Claws yeet. IF there was mafia trying to influence things and sway the yeet away from scum then he is the guy. Plus he gets hit by the mighty tell of "saying something but actually voting there way later" so if this has always been the true way to catch wolves then I'm ready to embrace your teachings now.

Tildey's belated push back against Foxxi's case is a big oof as well.

I'm squinting my eyes at Matthew derping at the start of day after other people have already made the mistake of assuming that yesterday's thunderdome was caused by mafia just looks like a shameless attempt to reach for the cookie jar of deep clears at this point.

Future, you're just scum.

So my poe is BN, Tildey, Future, Matthew

With an outer poe of Grumpy Cat, MTR, Mazer, LDG

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EBWOP

The biggest question mark on Dreyski wagon for me is PG. I doubt he would just vote Claws and peace out like that if they were partners. I think the only world where that happens is if Claws told his partners to just bus him right at the beginning of D2. In that world, I would expect for at least 1 other scum to jump on the Dreyski train behind him. I don't strongly feel that is the case so I am going to discard this possibility and assume that everyone on the Dreyski wagon is town for now.

I'm reading jarrod as the wrong townie on the scum wagon.

BN's scum equity went through the roof for being consistently opposed to Claws yeet. IF there was mafia trying to influence things and sway the yeet away from scum then he is the guy. Plus he gets hit by the mighty tell of "saying something but actually voting there way later" so if this has always been the true way to catch wolves then I'm ready to embrace your teachings now.

Tildey's belated push back against Foxxi's case is a big oof as well.

I'm squinting my eyes at Matthew derping at the start of day after other people have already made the mistake of assuming that yesterday's thunderdome just looks like a shameless attempt to reach for the cookie jar of deep clears at this point.

Future, you're just scum.

So my poe is BN, Tildey, Future, Matthew

With an outer poe of Grumpy Cat, MTR, Mazer, LDG

Am I required to end the day with a vote?

Fit the mold*

Dreyski's latest couple of posts made me feel better about him being town. To be honest, I wasn't strongly scumreading him to begin with, but there was a part of me that wanted to take the other side when Foxxi started pleading for everyone to vote Claws. I didn't like about my thoughts but I may have overrepresented them a little to try and create some tension around the yeet. Because if it looked to be a unanimous decision to yeet Claws then mafia could easily blend in by condemning him along with everybody else no matter his alignment. I wanted to make this day feel more competitive.

Though I get the feeling that most people don't really care that much about who is yeeted. Makes me think that both players are town and the wolves are chilling tbh.

Vote: unvote

Like I said, since I feel better about Dreyski being town here I no longer have much of a reason to stand in the way of Claws elimination. Foxxi did raise some reasonable points about how my town read on Claws could be misguided although I really don't believe this. So I'm fine with her having her way with Claws. That way I will either be proven right or we will yeet a wolf.

Regarding who I think the chilling wolves are, I think the names like Future, CWE, Mazer, PG, Matthew for the mold, as well as no-shows in MTR and Tildey. If you think that someone fits the mold but their name isn't here, you are probably right.

Foxxi, are you happy right now?

Dreyski said:

Get out of here with that shit. You know, it is possible for two people to have the same opinion or come to the same conclusions.
What's more likely, scum being on VK's train to help the misyeet or the train being 100% town? Nobody knew about the Thunderdome at that time. Give me a minute and i'll give you some orignal reads.

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I think that depending on the exact number of the scum and whether or not you count the lone 3p neutral the odds of one of three people containing a scum are somewhat close. Though it's definitely less than 50% if one is town and counts themselves among that number.

As to the other part of your post, sure. Take as much time as you like.

Oh, and I can't argue with the meta card. But if you just said "I know Claws game inside and out and he's scum this game, trust me bro" I think I'd be more inclined to sheep that lol

But I will go with what I see

Foxxi, I wasn't suggesting that you should drop your read. What I am saying is that I'm not sure how useful it is for the two of us to keep arguing about this issue further. We have each made our opinions known and layed out our arguments. So we would just continue reciting the same things from now on.

For me, Claws calling out Grumpy for potentially trying to defend his partner Void is a sign that his read was real, as it was an attempt to expand on an existing worldview. And I think Claws gifs today are pretty towny lol

In other news, I think LDG's derps are pretty towny lol

There is also a distinct possibility that neither one of Claws and Dreyski is scum. But I think that the most productive assumption to make for today is that exactly one of them is scum and the other one is not so this is where I'm coming from.

Nightingale said:

For fucking sake, no. Not everyone is going to be scum. My point is there is NONE of that for drey at all other than me and peter's random vote. Which makes me feel even more confident drey isn't scum... and claws might be - I want to bash your head into a wall right now I am so frustrated with trying to explain what I feel is obvious to you... but I still think you may just be being dense and stubborn here --- but there are others for claws that *could* point at you being wrong and that people are trying to sway things from him.

Like that future pop in bugs the shit out of me... and you don't seem to want to even consider what I am saying

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Foxxi's, I promise you that what you are feeling about me is exactly what I'm feeling about you right now. Well, minus the want to bash your head against the wall.

If you stop pushing your agenda I will stop pushing mine. I only try to counteract your arguments which look just as bad to me as mine do to you.

Insaner said:

There are more people who haven't voted on either of two trains so it's far too early to make this argument.

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And now that you did, the scum might just decide to play their cards accordingly.

There are more people who haven't voted on either of two trains so it's far too early to make this argument.

Nightingale said:

Okay. And who other than myself and peter are voting claws right now? Have I not given the scum team plenty of opportunity to agree with me and follow along if they wanted to protect their buddy drey?

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The day is far from ended.