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I had a lot of fun with this one. The unfortunate circumstance of spreadsheeting didn't help, but I think it was really just lucky PR play that got us so far ahead early on. The scum here still played well. rock snowed most of us and there was enough dissolution in the town that without the PR catches, things could have swung to a couple mischops.

Fun theme and setup, Mazer. Thanks as always for taking the time to run these.

Eh, everyone but MTR and llettuce are voting

Unvote:
Vote: MTR

Should I hammer?

Listo95 said:

You can blame that on being exhausted after work. He should have been in the upper portions of null.

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Hmm. Ok for now. Let's see you kick it up a notch next day phase.

Listo95 said:

D1
Lora (1)- Lora
CWE (1) - CWE
GrumpyCat (1) val
Rock (7)-rock, xan, Psych, Listo, Future, Badger
BN (2)-, vk, BN
Badger (1)- Jarrod
sleep (3)-Claws, GC, Quat,
claws (1)-Future
______________________________________________________________________________________
D2
Mtr (4) -Claws, BN, Listo, jarrod
cwe (9) - Quat, Badger, future, GC, Xan, mtr, Lora, psych, Rock
jarrod (2)-LDG
Future (1) -llettuce
Lora (1) - cwe

Looking at D1, Lora is Lora and wants only the best for God King Lora. VK/BN on BN. Jarrod on Badger, Claws/Grumpy/Foxxi on sleep, Future on Claws. Jarrod's vote could be sus but I think scum would've tried to either move votes to get who they wanted lynched, on the top train, or spread enough around to make it difficult for their own to get lynched if they went that route. This would put Jarrod at a slight town imo.
I just noticed Future is on here twice... Idk which vote was his official final one... unless it is both.
So far only town has been seen voting sleep, which I do believe all 3 were town based on what Grumpy is saying.
Not really sure about the BN votes, but I feel VK is town.
On Rock I feel future (if this is his) makes them unlikely to be aligned with Badger purely based on being next to each other. Xan/Psycho could go either way depending on if Rock is town/scum.

Looking at D2, I doubt Future is scum due to being next to Badger, Xan could possibly be in a meh spot assuming MTR is scum, Lora is Lora, Psych and Rock are in meh spots also.
LDG is LDG.
llettuce put vote there purely to have vote on record so this vote is essentially null and is sus.
BN/Jarrod/Me all on MTR depending on what MTR flips could be meh or good. I know I'm town.

Trust:
VK/GC

Null:
BN/Xan/Psych/Rock
Lean Scum:
Future/Llettuce/Jarrod

Scum:
MTR

LDG/Lora:
LDG/Lora

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Each mention of Jarrod has him as slight town in the least, especially if MTR is scum. So how did he end up as lean scum?

VoidKitten said:

Also, Lora's vote was the hammer, there is some weird vote fuckery going on still

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Unless Mazer made a mistake and hasn't corrected it yet

Like I don't think Future has actually done anything that's towny in any individual post, but the general vibe read doesn't feel like scum!Future to me

VoidKitten said:

There is a difference between starting strong and just doing nothing except saying I'm town why don't you believe me.

He gets points for actually providing a read list. Less points because its a trash read list mostly, imo. But is it too trash to be scummy? I dunno. I dislike him.

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My point is that entrance is NAI at worst based on content. Future doesn't start with reads. Maybe shade at the family but that's about it. You're speaking as ite it's impossible for Future to post like this as town and I think that's just not true?

And if he's randed town after however many games now as always randing scum, I could see him being particularly indignant about it.

VoidKitten said:

I kinda like Jarrod.

How can you call his intro into the game town? Do you think he was trying to gimmick the town thing as he signed up for? Like, it almost sounds like cover.

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It was more active than I remember him being in recent games and I think his posts today have been similar.

I never said the content was anything great but also Future never starts strong. You should know this

TOWN
LemonDemonGirl
Rock Meets Hard Place
VoidKitten
Future
BN

NEUTRAL
Jarrod1983
llettuce
Grumpycat

POE
Lora
Monsieur Listo Who Is Trapped in He
ll
Xanjori
MTR


I think this is the roughly where my heads at without looking back at anything.

The temptation to hammer

Only world I see rock as scum is if Blind is also scum, and that just seems unlikely.

I want to give Jarrod cred for pushing Badger with Kumquat, but I'd need to review and not sure it was really enough/Badger was never really in enough danger for it to matter. Though Badger did seem to have genuine reactions to Jarrod and came off like he was trying to flip it on him.

If Xan is scum, I feel really weird about the way Lora defended him and jumped to calling me and Void scum

I still think I trust Void. Seems like he was genuinely trying to solve the game last night when few were, like he had been pent up from the silence and was releasing all that energy. I also think he either is more cautious about my info on Xan or caves to Xan's explanation quicker. There's the world Void was getting in front of it and used an excuse to flip it back to a townread, but eh, I'm just not really seeing it.

GrumpyCat said:

So would you rather go xan or do you think mtr should be dead by now?

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I think they're probably both about equally good. There's the smallest chance some shenanigans made it so my info doesn't implicate Xan. But in my opinion, none of the possible explanations add up with the way Xan posted and kept changing the story. If I'm right, Xan is maybe more valuable because of how strongly he fought against me. But I think either is good and just want the other to follow if I'm not alive to see it happen.

I'm a bit busy for a bit so I've only really skimmed the posts I missed. I don't think Future has super town equity, but I do still think his general posting presence doesn't have the energy of being scum. I've seen him make posts that feel like they say nothing or little as town, but it's the frequency. Day 2 maybe a little bit, but Future doesn't seem scared to be in the thread. As someone who's both played with and against him as scum, I think he he's a lot more hesitant to be in thread because he's worried that any little thing he says will make him look scummy. He said as much last game we were scum together(or maybe it was the game I ran, I can't remember).

So he's maybe not worth the shield, but if I had a gun-to-head, I'd townread him.

Don't have many strong feelings on others which is why I need to do some digging, but it'll be a moment before I get to that

I don't know what I was saying with "The Last". That was a thought I must have thrown out a long time ago lol

VoidKitten said:

I think both of you were confused and bickering with each other. I missed that Pico acted twice until you said you went back to read the writeups.

Which, means there is potentially something here as much as I really want Xan to be caught again.

Click to expand...

The last

VoidKitten said:

Read both of the Picos and then think about what Xan said when he first came in to defend himself.

Anything cross your mind like it did mine?

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I've already considered that the second Pico could be Xan that was changed to a different character, and pretty sure I said as much. It's possible scum acted and basically acted as Pico and Kumquat was the scum, but that feels like a stretch to me.

It's also possible his character got changed to Pico, but look at how Xan progresses from claiming he's Pico, to I think trying to claim Tankman, to implying Kumqaut can't be Pico.

He's either Pico and Kumqaut is fake/another Pico, or he's some character we haven't seen that got masked as a second Pico, or he's lying scum

Xanjori said:

The man just admitted to two Pico's in the game?

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There are two Pico actions are in the same writeup. I'm not saying there are twos, I'm saying there are two actions and explaining to Blind where the other Pico action was like he asked.

Xanjori said:

And Ive already told you that my action is showing up as incorrect in the write-up.

Either play mafia and work it out, or play the info and work it out. Pick one and just do it already

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I'm doing that already. Which is why I haven't moved my vote.

Void, even if you trust Xan for some reason, can you make my argument painfully clear for everyone if necessary?

My info is there, I don't want to push the envelope more than I already have, you know why I'm voting Xanjori, it's all in my posts. It's up to the rest of you to decipher it and trust/believe me, even though I feel I can't make this any clearer.

Blind Ninja said:

But you claim these people are specific players... which isnt anywhere.

And why not show both pico lines?

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Because the other Pico had a target: VoidKitten.

I don't get what you mean by the first line? I know for a fact that CWE, Xanjori, and LDG targeted Kumquat, but not enough characters are showing up that actually targeted Kumqaut.

Think about how I would have learned that info, and why that's odd, and why Xanjori and LDG(the players )are either LemonDemonGirl (The Character), Daddy Dearest, Pico, or some unseen role.

The problem is Xanjori's story doesn't add up right to be Pico. The unseen role is a possibility. It's also possible LDG is Daddy Dearest or an unseen role, but that likelihood is low.

Xanjori said:

I did point out Id misread stuff earlier.

Kumquat isnt Pico. I know this.

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*sigh*

I'm sorry, I have a lot of trouble buying this unless I'm to believe you legit thought you were a different character, which doesn't line up with your "The writeup is hiding something" argument as I feel you would have understood the argument I was making earlier about how the only other character that targeted Kumqaut could be Pico.

And on top of that, you hinted at the argument that Kumquat isn't Pico at the very beginning of this whole fiasco, which would mean you already knew you were Pico before now claiming to have not read things properly.

Xanjori said:

Also you cant say Im lying when you literally proved what I said true. Where my character write up for N1 is incorrect.

On top of that.

Kumquat isnt Pico. So thats why this is extra important you tell the truth now =)

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How is Kumquat not Pico?

Earlier I asked if you were implying that Kumquat isn't Pico. You didn't respond then.

Then you also consistently said that some character "targeted Pico" and didn't show up in N2, implying that character was you. If that's the case, you wouldn't be "targeting" Pico because you ARE Pico. And Pico showed up both nights.

So for you to claim Kumquat is not Pico, you would have to be Pico, which you already contradicted yourself on earlier.

The other alternative is that you are Tankman(who didn't show up N2 and isn't the case), you are a role that didn't show up, or the N1 writeup changed your target.

Are you still claiming that a character didn't act N2? Because if you are, than this whole argument is a lie and you are scum, or you are painfully confused about who you are and should reread your rolecard.

Blind Ninja said:

You keep saying this... can you quote those portions of N1

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I know that 4 players targeted Kumquat. Only 3 characters showed up as targeting Kumquat. Shown here:

Mazer said:

But TheLemonDemonGirl had never been one to bow to the befuddlements of the Devil. Her war would not brook such insecurities. And knowing that the Kumquat was typically a fruit was important to her. Surely the power of citrus could potentially shake the very foundations of Hell.

Pico also felt that communication was key. And then thought about which others might benefit the most from this line of thought. Poor communication is one of the easiest ways for a team to get derailed.

Tankman was also confident in his team. So much so that he did not feel it was time for him to launch an offensive. He felt confident that Kumquat would also feel the same.

At the same time, Girlfriend wondered if Kumquat would prove to have more staying power than Boyfriend…and she set out to learn the taste of citrus.

And Daddy Dearest knew you should never play fair.

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I included the second Pico action and Daddy Dearest because - disregarding a character being hidden or writeup trickery - those are the only other possible people that targeted Kumquat.

Xanjori said:

Answer the question I asked you

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I did, but I'm not risking answering directly

Xanjori said:

Psycho did you target Pico or Kumquat?

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Kumquat is Pico

Kumquat was targeted by 4 people on N1 including you, LDG, and CWE. Only 3 people showed up as targeting Kumquat in the writeups despite info that confirms that 4 people did.

VoidKitten said:

I don't even know what to make of this. I wanted to say we haven't seen any evidence of it, but its literally D3 so.

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There's a world where I can see this being the case. It would involve the second showing of Pico being a fake. Or maybe even Daddy Dearest. And one of those was faked in place of Xanjori's actions. But this only remains relevant if his character did not show up in N1. Because he can't be any if the characters that showed up in N1 if he's claiming to have not shown up in N2.

Xan, I admire your fire and dedication here. I know this is probably a frustrating situation to be in.

Anyway I'll probably be out of thread for a bit. Both wagons are good for today.

Xanjori said:

Yes I am

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lol

Xanjori said:

Well I know he is lying

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You quite blatantly did call me a liar.

Xanjori said:

This whole "push" is fucking retarded. Like actually retarded.

There is a super simple way to confirm what Im saying to be true. You go look at write-up N1. You cross check which town visited Pico. You then check if all those town acted N2. Did they? No they didnt. Stop being moronic because this isnt even playing mafia, its being flat out stupid

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I assume by Pico you mean Kumquat.

There is one town character that targeted Kumquat N1 that didn't appear N2.

You are not them.

If you guys want, you can look back at my D2 and you can see where I already teased my info. The trail is there to follow.

If you don't think it's Xan, it's LDG. But Xan's specific claim regarding night actions, as well as calling me a liar, just confirms that it's him.

I'm fine if MTR goes first. Just don't waste my info after.

Xanjori said:

Are you actually not reading?

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I think you're not reading if you're not understanding how you're caught.

rock meets hard place said:

I can't wait to mod. My only worry is that you guys won't enjoy a game without a ton of info but it will be interesting fmpov to see how people handle a game where they aren't fed info

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I'll love it personally. Some will hate it. It'll be great either way.

PsychoSoldier said:

If you're implying what I think you're implying, there's an easy answer for that which I think at least Void could pick up on.

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What I can say is that unless you think Boyfriend roleblocked you last night, there's no evidence to support your claim that you are the town role that didn't act last night.

Xanjori said:

Except you saw a town role target Pico and you saw that TR NOT ACT last night. So explain that one

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If you're implying what I think you're implying, there's an easy answer for that which I think at least Void could pick up on.

Xanjori said:

That I forgot to submit an action

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This is impossible. The info is there. And I see you are claiming I am lying, so you are officially outed.

MTR and Xanjori are the next two kills. Hands down.

rock meets hard place said:

This seems stupid and I don't like psycho egging on void

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Do you have an explanation for Xan targeting Kumquat without being Daddy Dearest? He can't be Girlfriend because she's dead. It can't be Pico because he's dead.

That leaves LemonDemonGirl, Daddy Dearest, or some unseen role. Between those 2/3 options, LDG(the player) and Xanjori are those characters. And I'm assuming that LDG is just LemonDemonGirl because that's been Mazer's MO with these games and the odds that her name popped up when LemonDemonGirl the character also targeted Kumquat...basically, the only other alternative is that LDG would be Daddy Dearest or some unseen role.

So take your pick.

You didn't even talk about CWE, MTR, or Badger in your entire ISO

Xanjori said:

Also I dont know what you think of my scum game, but I dont just randomly bus my team mates from D1

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What teammates did you bus?

If you're talking about CWE, he was outed at that point and would have advocated for his partners to pile on him.

Xanjori said:

Thats actually a lie, and if she was here right now she'd vouch for me

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That Kumquat was Pico?

rock meets hard place said:

Guy I lynched from sure scum over a maybe gulity (from my pov) and there's an inno or something on me anyways

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The problem i had is I think scum are more likely to take the "don't trust the 3p" line in my experience. But I'm happy just trusting the info of one of your biggest haters.

Blind Ninja said:

Rock is clean.

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I'll definitely take your word for it

I also feel rock should be re-evaluated. I feel like I had a reason why he's probably still town, but if MTR ends up being a valuable role, he needs to be called into question.

Actually, now that Kumquat flipped as Pico, it's way worse for Xan

Void stole my idea

Vote: Xanjori

Blind Ninja said:

The N1 writeup looked like 3 ppl targeted Kumquat... at least that was my interpretation

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4 people should have targeted Kumquat is what I'm implying

Also, yeah

Vote: MTR

I told y'all

Good shit

Seems like scum caught on so I'll share

CWE, Xanjori, and LDG targeted Kumquat on N1. For some reason we only saw two people target Kumquat, which makes me think one of them might be Daddy Dearest or another character that didn't have a target.

Kumquat said:

I am itched by the fact that CWE seemed to be a perfectly accepted choice right up until I suggested Rock be the hammer to mitigate a possible hammer kill - that makes me think scum were prepared and wanted CWE until there was a plan to stop a retaliation kill - then they wanted to swap to MTR so CWE can go boom when there's no death immune person to soak it *shrug*

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I don't know if this is funny true? Hardly anyone was around when the wagon on CWE built up.

Either way, I don't think CWE is a bomb. The precaution was fine, but I'm not expecting any ramifications

rock meets hard place said:

If cwe was a bad apple why did it matter to you that we did him over mtr?

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Because I think the wagon movement through the day and the lack of interest/resistance against chopping MTR insinuates he's a role scum would prefer not to post. Whereas CWE was always destined to die early and would have been playing as such

CWE is also still a bad apple, so hopefully people see the light tomorrow

Claws said:

You guys are fools

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Forgive them, for they know not that they have done

Kumquat said:

To put it simply psycho -

I have thoughts and theories about claws that may or may not be right.

And I have a CWE that is 99.9% probable as scum.

I'm choosing the thing I am certain of.

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Fair enough, all I ask is that if I die we actually listen to Claws, and if you're town, that you do your part to support that.

Kumquat said:

Because he ALSO said he didn't understand his card - so it's clearly not a cut and dry cop check.

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Where did he say this? He has seemed very direct from all his posts. The closest I can remember is when he said he clarified his info, but I think that was due to the bus drive, not because he didn't understand his role.

Which is even more puzzling why you would oppose chopping MTR/trusting Claws' info so much when the only worlds where it would likely hurt us is if he's a jester or a lyncher

Kumquat said:

There are lines in the write up about claws the character that sound like he is actually not fully evil - and Mazer does put subtle hints in flavor sometimes. Plus the action claws the character took does kinda sound like an investigation of some sort.... so I can see a world where he may be beneficial to town.

I can also see it possible the flavor is just flavor and the invest sounding action is something I'm not understanding fully since he said his card was confusing and a cop check is anything but confusing.

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Didn't you already share this?

I also theorized about this

PsychoSoldier said:

It's also worth noting that this writeup almost seems to imply that Claws The Role is more likely to be on the side of good.

So for all intents and purposes, regardless of whether Claws the player is 3p or not, I think his info is legit and we're better off following it and not worrying about him until after we deal with MTR.

We can deal with BN at that point as well. No reason to get mad at Claws for potentially serving a mafia member on a silver platter to us.

Click to expand...

Kumquat said:

Tbf Rock - whatever claws is I don't think he is a lyncher

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If you don't think he's a lyncher, then why do you not trust the info? If he's anything other than mafia trying to get cred by taking advantage of 3p targeting MTR, there are not many worlds where it benefits him to lie about the info. U less you think he's a jester.

Kumquat said:

This is why I'm not sure. I can see it being a wifom play to make MTR look *more* OR *less* sus depending on how it's looked at >.>

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In moments of doubt, I believe Occam's Razor assuages all concerns

rock meets hard place said:

I sorta doubt there's any info bc if claws has to kill mtr then claiming a gulity is the best way to accomplish that. Mtr could be town if Jarrod is scum

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If we don't flip MTR just because Claws is 3p, especially if we find out he's not a lyncher, I'm going to be very disappointed.

I get that it's "skewed" because we're getting the info from 3p, but I don't think mafia are going to quibble over that. If MTR is town, they have a free excuse to push Claws after, or to even push Claws instead.

Kumquat said:

I'm not sure. This flood of votes onto MTR suddenly at the end of the day when no one wanted to vote there before... I don't know what I think of this fully yet.

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Why would they not just vote MTR earlier? BN had chosen CWE before, Jarrod was around long enough to do MTR earlier. Listo is Listo, but again, if this was a "MTR is the scapegoat" situation, I think he would have been voted earlier. Particularly when CWE outed.

I hate to be a bother or to limit MTR's play, but I believe it is most beneficial if someone were to roleblock him at night.

Kumquat said:

We need one of the others to vote so you can hammer. Jarrod's vote on MTR is sus as fuck

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Do you still feel this way if MTR is a more valuable mafia member than CWE?

Vote: CWE

Let's just get it over with

Kumquat said:

@Jarrod1983 - if you do not swap onto CWE so we can reach a hammer and avoid the penalty for failing that, I will personally hound you for the remainder of this game until one of us is dead.

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Blackmail and threats are not a very positive and friendly way to play the game!

Kumquat said:

This makes no sense. It's D2 - on D3 rock's immunity will have ended, and I think CWE's behavior outs him. I trust that more than the word of a player I am not certain of their motives. I can think of/see a way claws could be legit - but that doesn't make it *true*

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Sorry, my brain processed your post wrong. I was focusing on the "shenanigans" and equating that to CWE being the preferred chop, because once he's caught there's no getting out of it and he'd prepare and play with that in mind. And the votes piled on him a lot easier, so it makes me feel like MTR is the more valuable role.

I'm fine with the rock plan, but worry about the consequences of keeping MTR alive another phase.

Blind Ninja said:

Im ok with trying to ship both of them

Unvote:
Vote: MTR

Willing to test Claws deets...

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Has anyone told you that you're a dear? Because you certainly deserve to hear it more.

Kumquat said:

@rock meets hard place - I think your offer was in relation to claws, but if you are willing (and we can get CWE to 8 votes without yours) I think treating this the same way with using your immunity as a shield is logical. It is fairly common here for scum to have an ability to take someone on the train with them, and the way CWE didn't even seem to *try* has me concerned about shenanigans.

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This is part of the reason why I prefer going MTR first.

I still think it's interesting that I am pretty much the only one that backed up Claws' info this whole phase. CWE stacked votes pretty easily in comparison.

I just hope after CWE flips that we all give Claws a chance to prove he's a good egg. I feel he has offered us a joyous gift and so many have, well, to be crass, defecated all over his offering.

Kumquat said:

The reasons you gave were based on thinking claws would just be so excited to have info that he'd potentially throw his own wincon out the window, drawing the ire of the scum team just so he could do something towny. I think that's extremely unlikely. I think if he were some kind of survivor he wouldn't want to draw the attention he has.

But - If for some reason he has a town wincon even though he is orange... I can see a world where the things he's done could make sense, and *only* if has a town wincon. That's the spice.... would mazer make a town that isn't town colored?

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That wasn't the only reason I gave and I'm disappointed you've ignored it, but it's ok. I'm going to choose to not focus on it to keep the positivity up.

Kumquat said:

Spicy claws tinfoil: I can see things that point at him being possibly some unorthodox orange colored town potentially.

What that means for MTR I haven't decided.

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I don't mean to be rude, but...this is disappointing tinfoil that was already posted by me.

Kumquat said:

Also if claws were a town siding 3p why is he solely focused on his own agenda push instead of considering any other possible scum the town could get rid of? He could remind us of whatever info he is offering, while still being willing to pursue someone like CWE who I don't think anyone is going to deny seems to be outted scum. Feels like he's got his own motives with MTR.

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A player with info on confirmed scum is going to focus on that.

Kumquat said:

**__Town:__**
- Kumquat
- Val
- Rock
- BN
- Grumpy

**__Maybe Town:__**
- Void
- LDG
- Xan
- MTR

**__Neutral:__**
- jarrod
- lettuce
- Listo
- Lora
- Claws

**__Sus:__**
- Badger
- CWE
- Future
- Psycho

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Why do you trust Grumpy?

Kumquat said:

I don't trust him. He's gone so far overboard with trying to be wolfy about it that it feels performative to me - trying to get trusted by being TWTBAW. He could be trying to townside, or he could have a goal we haven't thought of that may or may not harm town. And I don't personally see claws ever tossing his own wincon out the window just to help town and look good. He's not that selfless.

I'd rather have input from someone I trust to actually have the town's interests at heart on the matter.

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It doesn't seem like you trust anyone, though? And trust is the foundation of positivity.

Kumquat said:

No. If I'm ignoring you today then the alternative is badger and getting more info on you/mtr before making a choice there.

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If you take me out of the equation. How do you feel about Claws' claim, especially with the context I provided a few posts ago for why it would make sense for him to do it with good intentions?

Kumquat said:

Frankly I think we should try to tie CWE and badger - but with so few people actually voting that's a pipe dream.

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It should always be CWE and MTR. We can worry about Badger tomorrow.

Honestly, as long as CWE is the alternative, I do not mind you living in a fantasy. It's a wonderful place to be. Until reality comes crashing down on us all.

Kumquat said:

Except for the fact that my personal read of you is scum, and nothing you have said has changed that - and I trust my own reads above a possible 3p's motives.

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I don't mean to be dismissive of your reading capabilities, but you are, in the most generous assessment, wrong, so your whole worldview is tilted the wrong way.

Kumquat said:

Claws is either bullshitting or 3p. The only character that targeted MTR was the orange character claws - whos motives are unknown. You say you have no reason to doubt him but you also shouldn't have any reason to trust him. We know nothing about what his goals are.

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Ahh, but you forget I love 3p's.

Also, you know Claws as well as I do and should understand the frame of mind he's coming into this game after what happened last game. If he's 3p and has a guilty, he's not going to be able to contain himself to say he bagged a mafia and get cred, even if it ruins his survivor wincon.

We also do not know for sure that Claws is full 3p. We have Blind Ninja in purple and Claws in orange. It is possible Claws has the ability to choose sides.

For me, there is more reason to believe Claws' info than not, and if you think there's one between me and MTR, there's no reason to not believe Claws' info regardless of intentions.

rock meets hard place said:

If mtr is claws lynch target then there's not a guilty on him and mtr could be either alignment. Who else do do you want? Claws? Cwe? What even are your reads?

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CWE is the next person I feel must face the punishment of love. I have intimated as much.

I also have said I don't believe Claws is doing this because he has a wincon to eliminate MTR. It requires too much coincidence. Occam's Razor says MTR was targeted by a role so therefore that role has info on MTR. Not a lucky bus drive that gave him an excuse to push his wincon target.

Notice MTR has completely silenced after the first post or two in retaliation to Claws.

The obvious is right in front of our eyes, and as much as I hate to eliminate someone from this lovely game, I think we would have seen more people randomly pile on MTR were he green here. It is an easy chain-lynch from him to Claws from the bad apple perspective.

rock meets hard place said:

And if mtr greens?

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In that world, one of you could be getting on the right side of history. But less immediately suspicious.

But I have no reason to doubt Claws here.

If I happen to be eliminated before we get to that point, I believe it is vital that we look into Kumquat and rock if MTR flips red. They're likely not both bad apples, but both of them have either ignored or been loudly against voting MTR and instead either pushing me, the 3p, or other potential scapegoats like Badger.

I will say Kumquat has a small leg up because she was at least quick to push CWE who all but confirmed he was a bad apple for us.

Kumquat said:

In that same vein - psycho forgetting to ping exactly Void as who hasn't voted yet is sus as fuck

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I explained why and think it's a perfectly valid explanation, while you are still willfully ignoring my point about Claws and MTR as you have been this whole phase

Kumquat said:

@Badger - why did you assume that action on void might have been a silence? I could see reading that as a vanilla maybe, or a vote steal... but I don't think silence is a natural conclusion... and you said he had been quiet.... but the phase had barely even begun so that seems awfully quick to declare he might be silenced because of that.

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I read it as a roleblock initially, so I can see the point here. But after it was mentioned by Badger and Void was around but hadn't posted, seems like it's probably legit.

Kumquat said:

because I went back to being sus of psycho... and only one of them is going to be scum. Keep with the program

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You do realize if Claws has info on MTR, I can't be the mafia in the pair and Claws would have no reason to be confused? He even said that he confirmed to make sure he understood everything correctly so nicely for us despite the inherent risk of confirming such info.

Kumquat, I don't mean to imply anything, but do you not think MTR is a bad apple here?

Claws said:

Either way restrictions dont stop voted

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We don't know that for sure though. People have handled silencing differently.

Kumquat said:

and despite the busdrive... I'm still being pinged by psycho - and BN brought up a good point. Val had like 2 posts and they killed him. Our inactivity vig roles have had kill requirements based on posts or non-votes in the past. Sometimes both, sometimes one or the other. Only the person with the role if it is a role and not a mod mechanic would know. So if the scum had been thinking about that for the busdrive... why then kill Val who was just as likely to potentially be inactivig'd.... something about it doesn't click.

But I also hate badger's reaction to my sus. So maybe this is a case of caught for the wrong reasons and that busdrive was done for some other reason not even considering MTR might get shot.

PoE: jarrod, psycho, badger, CWE, future, claws
Outside PoE: Lettuce, listo, lora

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Ohh you

Kumquat said:

You forgot @VoidKitten

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Considering he's been online and hasn't posted, I'm assuming he was either silenced or is running with that theory similar to when I faked having a gif restriction after it was suggested. If it's the latter, he'll likely vote before deadline anyway.

@LemonDemonGirl
@CWE
@Xanjori
@Jarrod1983
@MTR
@llettuce
Monsieur @Listo95 Who Is Trapped in Hell
@FutureHold
@Blind Ninja
@Lora
@GrumpyCat

Hi everyone. It's me, Psycho. So happy to talk with you all.

I hate to be a Prodding Patricia but we have some bad apples who are served up to be eliminated and we have potential inactivity punishment to worry about. So, if you don't mind me saying, I think we should all have our votes out.

I know, it's asking a lot, and I'm sorry to be so pushy, but with the day halfway demised, I believe we must steel ourselves for *shudder* violence.

Kumquat said:

Don't take this personally - but *no one* should ever get credit for calling CWE scum and being right about it. I'll be more inclined to think I'm wrong about you if it turns out CWE *isn't* a wolf.

As for what I have against you - I've said as much. The hint/implication of an inactivity vig combined with the busdrive on the only non-voter makes me strongly suspect the scum had hoped to bus a kill to psycho. And you showed an awareness of who that non-voter was.... something I doubt anyone else actually paid attention to.

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I think it may be worth considering who else would have motivation to pay attention to that.

I also genuinely don't think Badger would have went out of his way to question CWE's absence if he was partnered with the bad apples.

CWE is normally such a dear, but consider my vote spiritually on CWE

CWE said:

@PsychoSoldier I'm not taking requests at this time. Please leave your message with my secretary.

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I'm very disappointed by this to say the least. I wish I could rekindle the passion.

Badger said:

I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to say. I just pointed out that MTR didn’t. Personally I am a big proponent of meeting these requirements and get mine in early. Not sure why Void is being brought up.

Walk me through this one.

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Don't worry your fuzzy little head about it. I'd argue that I trust your intentions, and we can leave at that for now ^_^

I think there's a much more reasonable explanation for Badger paying attention to who did/didn't meet the minimum.

I'm sure that lovely chap @VoidKitten has an idea.

I would also love to hear from the lovely @LemonDemonGirl and @Xanjori before too late

Claws said:

I just keep saying ill bus them next

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I must remind you again that bussing your comrades is unsportsmanlike. I can't in good conscience condone this behavior no matter how amusing it may be!

rock meets hard place said:

But if he was busdriven that means he targeted you

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No. The person he was shown to target in the writeup is the person who he targeted after the bus drive. It would mean he initially meant to target me.

I would have to believe that the improbable odds of Claws being redirected to his lyncher target happened. Which is not impossible, but seems like one hell of a coincidence when Occam's Razor says Claws has a different wincon and is speaking up because he got into on MTR after being busdriven.

rock meets hard place said:

What if claws has some other agenda for mtr? Is lyncher a thing on this site?

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I think it would be a weird coincidence for him to have targeted MTR by accident(thanks to bus drive) and that being the person he's trying to lynch as a wincon. Like not impossible but those are hella odds.

rock meets hard place said:

Or I guess I'm slightly wrong. You did infact reply to kumquat after they voted you but you still took awhile to vote mtr

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I did not want to be rude and immediately jump on MTR in case Claws didn't have info. The poor guy gets piled up on all the time. But as it became more clear Claws had info and wasn't just playing around, I decided to support his cause.

I should have done it earlier. He's a good Claws that deserves more love.