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  1. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Nightingale said:
    Technically he has played this game three times - the first was on MMOC and he was town, and town won. So he has a perfect track record in kingmaker.
    Click to expand...
    He is King of the Three Realms. Claws, first of his name.

    I think there's a good chance he names you grandmeister
  2. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    I've played Kingmaker twice. Both times scum won. The first was me, psych, and Claws. The second is nightie, satsu, and claws.


    I believe this makes Claws the King of Two Realms, and he now sits upon the Iron Throne.
  3. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Did you try to block a kill at listo last night?

    Good job scum
  4. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Dammit.
  5. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Listo95 said:
    Watch @Val the Moofia Boss not come in and execute someone -.-
    Click to expand...
    No.....he's not virming this. Painful flashbacks
  6. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    So would you rather see Claws yeeted over Nightingale or it makes no differnse to you?
    I know it is not exactyly a democracy but as i know Val he could take votes into consdieration so why not vote?
    Click to expand...
    I think that claws or llettuce are significantly the best options. Especially because of what happens if they are aligned.

    But I think this is a good look for satsu to still be thinking Nightingale through.
  7. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Damn you Mazer

    Unvote: Mazer

    I swear to God if you're scum and I let you go for this I'm never gonna forgive myself
    Click to expand...
    You've never caught this yet, but I said the thing I only say when I'm town.

    Been 2 years, but nobody has caught it yet. Not even cwe.


    As i said, I'm open to llettuce or claws. In addition to my earlier points, i feel good about claws, based on his interactions and which points he didn't address.

    I understand the point about the timing. But I feel like that we've possibly gone the other extreme with dismissing (like over-clearing derps). Because we've all seen the scum chat instructions that two people respond to in thread close together.
  8. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    He's afraid to. That's when he dies
  9. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    I'll help mtr find a good rehab program for you
  10. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Sleep is the opiate of the masses
  11. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws brought that up like d2
  12. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    llettuce said:
    That was just coincidence i spent like an forever reading you 3s posts
    Click to expand...
    Coincidences do happen, but when you solve details matter.
  13. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    At this point, if claws and llettuce are aligned that's very concerning
  14. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    llettuce said:
    Well unless it's really elaborate theatre I'm guessing claws and mazer aren't on scum together, and I'm not sure if this scum!mazer who feels cornered or town!mazer who is defensive

    And to his credit I don't know his playstyle enough to know.

    And whether or not you normally use percentages and probability, I think the scum feel is that I just can't imagine rhe math is right. Maybe it's just I'm bad at math and can't imagine a world where someone is good at it so to me it looks like posturing.

    I'm at dinner so this is from my skim, if there is something specifically you want me to respond to please direct me to it.
    Click to expand...
    The big thing is I talk about probabilities a lot. Whether it be the never-ending say 1 debate, or because I'm telling void why I won't lynch Badger, etc.

    It's the way I think, as my post HS studies had minors in stats.

    So seeing you coming in right after claws singled me out for "over-focusing" and "having an agenda", with an observation that I know is inaccurate, causes concern.
  15. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    If I eliminate roles I try to be very precise (as possible given write-ups).

    My confidence ratings are sometimes a gut estimate.

    But making out and out mistakes on calculation bothers me greatly
  16. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    llettuce said:
    Well unless it's really elaborate theatre I'm guessing claws and mazer aren't on scum together, and I'm not sure if this scum!mazer who feels cornered or town!mazer who is defensive

    And to his credit I don't know his playstyle enough to know.

    And whether or not you normally use percentages and probability, I think the scum feel is that I just can't imagine rhe math is right. Maybe it's just I'm bad at math and can't imagine a world where someone is good at it so to me it looks like posturing.

    I'm at dinner so this is from my skim, if there is something specifically you want me to respond to please direct me to it.
    Click to expand...
    Which math?
  17. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Idk now im just feeling belittled and shit and i got super glue on my hands and phone meow ugh
    Click to expand...
    Man, I am not belittling. I've responded to your points with detail and not made anything personal.

    If you want to do ATE, go for it.

    I hope you get the glue off your hands and phone, because that sounds shitty.

    Hopefully it's not on the screen
  18. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Mazer said:
    I've been on satsu. I have challenged on future (albeit incorrectly). Last phase I literally made sure everyone had been questioned by someone, and if they weren't or I wasn't satisfied I kept going.

    I can see where that might be a headache, but why would I ignore 2 kings who are dangerous players with content.

    Feels less organic here
    Click to expand...
    Mazer said:
    I think you're usually supposed to spread these votes more than 10 minutes apart.

    Are you working with psych or hoping to work off his vote?

    Claws, I know I'm bringing up Psych but he was the first vote on me.

    It's interesting to me that you came in with a general statement and then llettuce came in with a forced reason. Probabilities was a bad call for a forced rationalization for me.
    Click to expand...

    Mazer said:
    Right now, I could see psych there's at least as good a chance as he's scum.as town, based on what I have him elimination from.


    But I also think llettuce and claws may have FINALLY overplayed their hand to try to get this through.

    I actually maybe feel a little more confident about llettuce given timing and rationale. But I'm also good with claws.

    Right now, I feel best about Lora and listo as town.

    And I don't hate that Val has forced a vote, when he probably could have just slipped a kill through.
    Click to expand...

    Claws said:
    You called me scum for singling you out and you being a non king
    Click to expand...
    S0..... here's what I said.

    I did say that I shouldn't ignore 2 kings. In response to you saying that we were all too focused on each other. And after I pointed out that I've been focusing on a lot of people. And that feels weird, because I never said people should vote kings.

    It's certainly a data point and for consideration. Like it definitely helps someone like Satsu's case.

    But it was the reasons. I didn't go overboard on Psych, because at least he'd been consistent with his reasons for voting me.
  19. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Your posts felt agenda driven and later on fell off you just rub me the wrong way and honestly idk what the fuck rationales even means im assuming it meant where there heads at
    Click to expand...
    The reasons they give for their actions.

    Rationales is shorter for me to type.



    You are talking about my "agenda". But I've gone through work with everyone. You can gut whatever. But you've played with me for a while now, and you've known that I ask a lot of questions, spreadsheet to eliminate roles, and blatantly talk about the odds and what I've eliminated. You're a good player, and I stuggle that if someone says something you know is wrong you're thinking "Nope, that's fine". Does that seem right?
  20. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    No you called me scum for it over voting night or psycho
    Click to expand...
    I called you scum for what? It certainly wasn't for not being king. That's nonsense.

    I said you were a good target because of your rationale being incorrect, you jumping on a pre-existent train, and then a potential teammate also jumped on the same train (When you were the other option) with an easily proven wrong rationale.

    Actions with forced rationales is kind of one of the big things about this game.
  21. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    I singled you out by poe style earlyier right before i voted you
    Click to expand...
    Yes, you made a point and then immediately voted. That's pretty much the way everyone votes. Except for val, lora, and lotjx, I guess.

    You've also ipretty much gnored any questions about the rationales, and any counterpoints. And your main counter seems to be "No you're the one who does it"

    When people gave me points, I've considered them. I've given you my thoughts, because if I'm wrong I'd consider that.


    But I guess you've not ignored llettuce.
  22. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Yes i was using your own logic here
    Click to expand...
    Where did I say that I would prefer to vote for people who had been kings, because doesn't this feel like a blatant misrepresentation? And the very agenda based thing you have gave as your reason for me?

    You and llettuce are my most suspicious. I fully answered your question about why you over her. Wouldn't be unwise to move someone over you two just because of that?
  23. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    I get the worry but i just dont see the logic that i purposely voted you 10mins apart with lettuce
    Click to expand...
    I mean, it is a tell we've seen.


    But I think you are ignoring my point based on my critiques about why you and llettuce singled me out.
  24. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    If you feel good killing me then you must be scum cuz i havent been king either
    Click to expand...
    This is kind of a weird point, because you are good with killing me over Psych and Nightingale....and I haven't been king.

    Are you saying I should only be concerned with killing people who haven't been king yet?


    Because that seems like something interesting from you.
  25. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Unfortunately i dont have scum chat so i cant set ppl up to post at a proper time and i may be working with psycho if he is indeed town
    Click to expand...
    Yes absolutely, because I should ignore tells. That close agenda post never happens and I should have ignored it and focused more on Psych and foxxi.
  26. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Plus if you were more sure of lettuce why not advantatly push her instead of hopping pn my train
    Click to expand...
    Because I am still very comfortable with killing you. And it's not completely impossible that val would decide to do something different.

    And because forcing people to actually get on record in a closer vote seems more helpful.


    It's a very small preference. To be clear, given the way your exchange and follow-ups have gone I'm very ok with it. Honestly, as I think about it the only reservation might be that I've misread you a lot and feel bad about it.

    But that's not an excuse to ignore good shots.
  27. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    My concern with you is that you came in with me, a person who has not been king and doesn't have a bad kill to my name, and stated I have been agendy and focused on just foxxi and psych.

    This pings because I actually did listen when Psych said I might be wrong about future replying as a force. I made sure that I had interactions with literally every other poster to see if I could pick something up. It really doesn't feel like I overfocused. It is fair that I've produced a lot of content, but that should give people specific things to find.

    And then instantly llettuce came in with a reason that everyone who knows me knows is wrong, not but 10 minutes later.

    And you and I were the only two picking up attention at that point.

    Certainly you see my concern?
  28. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Her reasons were pretty close to myself honestly til i see one of you flip im not gunna be happy
    Click to expand...
    You also think it's weird for me to hunt using probabilities?
  29. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Shes pretty good still needs more but she managed to answer my question on you 3 i feel like we mind melded a bit goin after the "smart ppl" i wouldnt put her in firm town over it but its a start
    Click to expand...
    So, you've played with me a lot. Regardless of her agreeing with you, do you feel her reasons were sound?

    It's true, you both do seem pretty mind-melded.
  30. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Why vote me over lettuce in your case ?
    Click to expand...
    Because I have you as very close to her in probability, and you and her brought me to 3 votes.

    If she gets more, I'd swtich to her.



    And Satsu is still out there.



    Satsu is interesting, because if I'm right about either you or llettuce, his probabilities as town jump up significantly.
  31. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    @PsychoSoldier

    How are you liking the rationales that have joined you on my train? Do you feel good with the way it came about?
  32. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    @llettuce

    Your concern was that I was agendy and was talking about probabilities, etc. Let's say you were aware that this is my play style, and even people in this thread can speak to my stats background....does that make you hesitate?
  33. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    @Claws

    What are your thoughts on llettuce? Like her rationale?
  34. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Right now the priorities for me are probably:

    Llettuce
    Claws

    Psych
    Satsu

    Night
    Val

    Listo
    Lora
  35. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Vote: claws

    And want to make sure nobody forgets llettuce.
  36. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Right now, I could see psych there's at least as good a chance as he's scum.as town, based on what I have him elimination from.


    But I also think llettuce and claws may have FINALLY overplayed their hand to try to get this through.

    I actually maybe feel a little more confident about llettuce given timing and rationale. But I'm also good with claws.

    Right now, I feel best about Lora and listo as town.

    And I don't hate that Val has forced a vote, when he probably could have just slipped a kill through.
  37. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Satsu
    Lora
    llettuce

    Listo
    Val

    Claws
    Mazer/Nightingale

    Ok, I think the kills this game have been very calculated. I think scum have specifically kept me/Mazer/Nightingale alive to Spider-Man point, but the fact none of us are dead makes me think it is because one of us IS scum. And I've seen enough red flags from both of them to think they're both clean.

    I still want to reread Mazer, but I want to reiterate that a lot of his content, off memory, has been consistently discrediting others' reasons for townreading underwhelming slots. Future being a prime example, and considering I'm townreading Satsu, his track record isn't really helping my perception. His takes on MTR seem inordinately focused on me and it comes off like he's been waiting for the right chance to start actively suspecting me. The flip side is that some of his solving today seems more involved than some might expect, but he's also at the point where he kind of has to in order to avoid accusations of floating or stirring the pot.

    Nightingale's takes today make me feel like they are more likely to come from town? But I also can't help but feel like she ended up coming up with an excuse to shoot someone kinda random. The way she was at Claws/llettuce/Satsu, to then talking about MTR and Listo, to then Lora and Future, to quickly honing in on future with a couple justification posts and then the shot. Not 100% sure what motivation she has as scum to avoid some of the previous names, but I also can't shake the feeling that she felt a need to justify the shot on Future rather than it being actual solving. Her patterns of posting are a bit harder to reconcile as scum, so if theres town between her and Mazer, I think I'm at the point of thinking it's her. But we need to be careful of clearing one after killing the other if that happens.

    I don't feel like Claws has investment in actually solving his reads. D1 was his most solvey, and past that, it's been a lot of reactionary takes that he doesn't even hold onto. The fact he today is just calling Me/Mazer/Night headaches and is focusing on solving in there feels like scum trying to stir that pot. If that is the case, it's probably only one of us in that 3 which is scum which is why he'd have the confidence to do so, while also getting some distance points from whoever is the scum there. Just can't really see claws as actually caring about who gets killed or having any personal reads he believes in, when I feel he usually has like one or two pet reads that he clings to from early on. I'm not seeing that here, instead just vague gesturing towards the trimuvirate of top posters.

    I just think Satsu is town. For all the things I've said in previous phases, the fact MTR was killed over Listo or Val, and the fact that I feel we've been very much on the same page the last couple phases. I think he's been a scapegoat scum has been preying upon.

    Lora is Lora, but I also still think his stance on people shading him is more likely to come from a town Lora who believes his shit rather than scum with an excuse.

    llettuce could be scum and I hesitate to go too hard to defend her...but I think her general presence the last couple phases has just been a bit too prominent and varied for her scum meta. She can fake some content, but usually only when prompted, and even then I think it usually scrapes the bare minimum barrel and instead focuses on shitposting. I don't think we're getting much of that here, and while some might argue she's still only scraping the minimum, it just...feels different?

    If all scum are not in Mazer/Night/Claws, I think one of Val or Listo could have scum. I originally thought Val was kingmaker, but that clearly wasn't the case. And with Listo actually playing like a Pr and doing himself no favors to stay alive...he's the one I'd trust to actually be PR between the two. I also struggle to see my bottom three all being scum, so...if I'm right about PR guesses, Val could be the baddie here.

    So yeah, I think Claws and one of Mazer/Nightingale is likely to contain 2 scum. If the 3rd isn't found in that pile, I'd look between Val, llettuce, and Lora, probably in that order.
    Click to expand...
    If you see me green, does that change your satsu read?
  38. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Maze, what conclusions do you get from this? I feel there are some theories thrown out, but no concrete "This makes me feel good/worse about X."
    Click to expand...
    I kind of wanted to see what people would respond to.

    I came out of it particularly wondering about you-as I've spelled out, claws and satsu mostly.

    In fairness, I'm still thinking at least one might be badly calibrated town.
  39. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    I must have the vk.quote saved from my other search.


    But it was one of his best
  40. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    Vote: Mazer
    Click to expand...
    VoidKitten said:
    I have no idea what any of this means.
    Click to expand...

    llettuce said:
    Vote: Mazer
    Click to expand...
    I think you're usually supposed to spread these votes more than 10 minutes apart.

    Are you working with psych or hoping to work off his vote?

    Claws, I know I'm bringing up Psych but he was the first vote on me.

    It's interesting to me that you came in with a general statement and then llettuce came in with a forced reason. Probabilities was a bad call for a forced rationalization for me.
  41. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    llettuce said:
    Scum order: Mazer, Foxxi, Psych

    I think its the substance thing for me on mazer, hes also been really into probability which for some reason rubs me the wrong way
    Foxxi just feels a little off
    Psych i think im ok with, but yeah this could all be theatre

    Im also now slightly sus of claws but not like too much
    Click to expand...
    I always think of probabilities, and everyone has seen me talk about what percentages I'm comfortable shooting at
  42. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    all 3 of you have been very centred on each other and playing with each other but no1 is taking shots you get king and look the other way psycho sus'd you d1 and looked the other way but then you guys come back to each other its professional scum theatre and im not buying into it
    Click to expand...
    I've been on satsu. I have challenged on future (albeit incorrectly). Last phase I literally made sure everyone had been questioned by someone, and if they weren't or I wasn't satisfied I kept going.

    I can see where that might be a headache, but why would I ignore 2 kings who are dangerous players with content.

    Feels less organic here
  43. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Nightingale said:
    I really don't think this is a scum listo - I don't think he plays intentionally in a way that he knows is likely to get him chopped.
    Click to expand...
    I actually agree, and that eliminates a possibility for people
  44. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    I still kinda think his schtick is because he's PR, just not the one I thought it was

    I'll try to go over your MTR stuff tomorrow, but I also want to look for myself. I also want to look back at your posts

    @Listo95 I get you believe you're the towniest town, but can you share thoughts on who the least towny is?
    Click to expand...

    Please do. It's pretty bad the number of people avoiding.
  45. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Nightingale said:
    I really don't think this is a scum listo - I don't think he plays intentionally in a way that he knows is likely to get him chopped.
    Click to expand...

    So, we've got a decent amount of people confirmed as being suspicious of listo being the hero. Odds are at least one person on scum started thinking that.

    And there's a lot of talk of killing mtr When you and psych both talk about killing him, you don't get a lot of pushback. He's a good target for someone to try to get a kill on, be it a scum king wanting a justifiable kill or inducing someone to make a bad kill.


    Going for mtr over listo, I'm guessing that someone either didn't think listo was read correctly, or they had a different worry.
  46. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    @PsychoSoldier

    How do you feel about Listo now?

    @Nightingale

    Also curious about your read.
  47. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Time for an MTR deep dive. This is the kill that most intrigues because he was theoretically on nightingale's chopping block, potential miskill and he got killed.
    PsychoSoldier said:
    Your King has gone over the entire thread again, and while many of my feelings are light, I must see to it that they are shared, so that the Kings to follow may have a reliable well of knowledge to draw from when making decisions in the future.

    I am cautiously townreading Tildey. I think her participation is greater than anything I've seen from her this early as scum, and while her initial reads put a lot of focus on finding the Kingmaker, I think they were thorough and less likely to be openly postulated if she were evil. The caveat is that if she started with way more free time than normal, she may just be motivated to show she can dominate when she has the time. But I do not believe that to be the case and would rather take her at face value.

    Also lightly townreading Listo. While he has only roleplayed so far, I think the quickness in which he changed perspectives when talking about revolting shows more freedom of mind than when he was belting out the same note for 3 days in the previous game. Obviously, we will need more, but it feels good so far.

    Claws also seems towny. I think the way he's done a bit of solving, and how he both went at Blind for asking an awkward question and later still hung on to that as the most interesting thing that happened without actively attacking Blind...ehh, I feel Claws would normally use that as a point of attack as an assassin. Caveat is that sometimes when I townread Claws early he turns out to be evil, but I have the faith for now.

    Lightest of light town on Future for similar reasons to the last game, but I don't feel as strongly about it. Would like to see a lot more.

    I also agreed with Nightingale that llettuce would make a fine court jester, and I still agree, but her absolute drop-off since that time is a bit concerning. Like she had a fun intro and then disappeared which she is more prone to do as scum in my experience.

    I talked about Satsu already and I also feel ok about Val, but these are just Royal flights of fancy, nothing strong.

    Blind Ninja seems...ok? I'm sort of reserving judgment because he's one of the best at faking content without seeming too far off from his town meta. I kinda like that he immediately questioned Future's intention and overall I want to say the way he's tried to get more out of me and pressure my presence is something more likely to come from town? I'd keep an open mind here, but not the direction I'm looking in.

    Mazer and Nightingale...I think there might be scum between the two. Mazer bothered me for reasons that both Tildey and Claws took out of my mouth. Feels like he's talking the talk but not really walking the walk. The first post where he talks about observing my process, it just feels like lip service to give the illusion of participation but leaving the winds open for the other town players to interpret positively or negatively and follow those winds. I will say I kinda like him asking if I would force people to cooperate, and the question about Satsu is ok? I think the directed inquisitiveness could be a good sign, but it's also totally possible he's doing the thing where he's just bringing up a name and hoping the crowd will do the shading for him.

    To be honest, though, I'm more worried about Nightingale. Her intro was even more filler-y. I kind of liked her coming to a read on llettuce, but I didn't really get why she liked Mazer more than Claws or Blind considering I feel he was, at best, completely neutral by that point? At least for anyone who knows Mazer as well as we do. I don't really feel like the post she is townreading Tildey for makes much sense as it's a completely NAI assessment of Val's player archetype that either alignment could make. Which is why I'm questioning her on that right now. It feels more like Nightingale is saying things to look towny/productive rather than actually having curiosity, which is a bad sign for her.

    Jarrod, LDG, Lora, and MTR are all rand for me right now, with MTR seeming maybe evil from soft meta vibes that I could not quite substantiate.
    Click to expand...
    Mtr is rand, but not completely. Day 1 though. Maybe something. Could quite possibly be nothing

    PsychoSoldier said:
    So my shot will likely land in those 4 or one of Mazer and Nightingale. Unless someone has a convincing reason to execute one of my townleans.
    Click to expand...
    FutureHold said:
    Hey Pyscho, I expect you to make the right choice, so I would like for you to kill MTR anyways
    Click to expand...
    day 1 mtr, etc etc
    Claws said:
    and yet i have never taken the whole house down before and i tend to always go for mtr first
    Click to expand...

    Tildey said:
    He doesn’t count MTR because he’s always trying to help on that one. :lol:
    Click to expand...
    Day 1 standard mtr tripe. Claws does love him some mtr
    Claws said:
    well i cant just go after the ladys first thats not very gentlemanly like so its goes MTR >future >diva then you
    Click to expand...
    claws on mtr early

    Claws said:
    Im actually with bn that blasting sum1 vocal early is gunna make this a boring game specially with what we have to go off of for today.

    Psycho had me at mtr tho
    Click to expand...
    Still, but in fairness, this is not uncommon for claws early
    PsychoSoldier said:
    LDG is completely rand and so is Lora, but I also would like to see if Lora ends up king. I feel dece about Future.

    So I probably shoot MTR or Jarrod.
    Click to expand...
    mtr or jarrod. Did end up going Jarrod. In fairness to both reads, not sure Psych could have been reading too strong at this point.
    PsychoSoldier said:
    I guess so. I'm not against shooting LDG full stop, but MTR's tone already gives me scum MTR-ish vibes and Jarrod's plea about not understanding the setup feels kind of fake since last time he played this he immediately jumped into roleplaying and playing up the king kill mechanic. Whereas I didn't initially feel anything about the RNG comment and feel completely neutral on her.
    Click to expand...

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Blind, is your preference LDG here? That's what I get from your suggestion.

    How about you, Claws? How do you feel about MTR vs. Jarrod? I know clock's ticking
    Click to expand...

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Part of me wants to townread MTR for the "meta read" on llettuce, but not for any good or concrete reason. I guess maybe because I'd expect him to try and force a little more of a detailed explanation? But eh, that's probably not in his meta regardless of alignment this early. It felt ok in the gut though.
    Click to expand...
    This is all kinda fair . And I don want to acknowledge that Psych pretty much always gives you the most material. He is why I stopped doing word usage penalties as a scum ability.
    PsychoSoldier said:
    Future looking townier today

    The basic part of me thinks Tildey's death implicates MTR.
    Click to expand...

    MTR said:
    I can't fault your logic on that but I had not part in Tildey's death. Actually bummed over losing the observer.
    Click to expand...

    Mazer said:
    Why does future look townier?

    Honestly, I got a slight negative from the first few posts.
    Click to expand...
    Psych with mtr over future when it's starting to get another read for many of us. Would he have had a reason at this point? Is it possible he was still starting to look at that option.
    PsychoSoldier said:
    Vote: MTR

    I wanna start here
    Click to expand...

    MTR said:
    Not a very good start. Barking up the wrong tree.
    Click to expand...

    Mazer said:
    Any other reasons you can think of for Tildey's death?

    @MTR

    Same question
    Click to expand...

    MTR said:
    I feel like Lora for some of the same reasons you mentioned earlier that he didn't really take advantage of being king to take out a strong threat.

    Future is feeling more and more town.

    I would also say I trust Mazer at this point as well.

    not sure what to think of claws or listo. val is probably town but could be a lurking scum.
    Click to expand...

    Mazer said:
    Why do you trust me?


    From multiple people, the king taking out a strong threat argument befuddles me.

    Does anyone else see my point on the type of kills scum would make or am I taking crazy pills?
    Click to expand...

    There's several back and forths here, and I'm not sure mtr is all the way established. Psych had some pressure. I was interested vetting. The important thing I think within this exchange is his POE. mtr obviously wouldn't be thinking "hero" like everyone else. If scum was trying to find one, are they like Psych and think he's the next biggest claimer? Is psych telling them that?

    There's a possibility I'm reading listo wrong, and if he did flip, I think there's some significance here.

    Satsu said:
    MTR would be on my shooting range but his reads are kind of solid arent they?
    Luckyly I dont have to make that kind of decsion today.
    Click to expand...

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Ehhh, Tildey was getting no suspicion and came out the gate strong. If they're avoiding killing the main heavy hitters, it's a good kill to do in general. Tildey's death isn't really the reason I'm voting MTR, but I definitely don't think her dying on N2 makes it any less likely.
    Click to expand...

    Mazer said:
    I slightly lean town on mtr, even though we disagree on our future leans.
    Click to expand...

    Claws said:
    I actually dont like mtr and think his tildey d2 bit was openly wolfing
    Click to expand...

    Claws said:
    i like val he seems like a cool guy
    i answered some of this earlyier your not terrible
    the fox is ok for meow
    mazer is agendy still dont really like him
    satsu idk i dont read him well
    lora is an idiot
    mtr probably scum
    future idk why he has such a hardon for me like give it a rest
    lettus is poor iso
    Listo is the towniest supposably ? probably scum?
    if i missed any1 else idk im just not really focusing on ppl not playing
    Click to expand...
    There is some calling out with mtr here. Claws is on the shot list. I'd ask Satsu about his reads, and reluctance to give reasons. But we all know he's not going to answer me or anyone else while I'm alive.
    Nightingale said:
    I am considering a pool of: lettuce, claws, satsu. I will hear arguments for: MTR, listo

    First the people I do not want to chop:

    Mazer: I got a read of mazer early D1 that I have yet to see any reason to think is incorrect, which admittedly was bolstered by being sus of psycho and feeling like the two of them have not interacted in a way that is partnered - but even reconsidering my feelings about psycho, I think his play since then leans him town regardless.

    Future: I touched on this already, but I feel like his play here has been more relaxed than I've seen in his previous scum games. He has offered thoughts and not avoided answering questions, though if claws is town I may have to reconsider him.

    Psycho: I feel a bit better about psycho today - some of that comes from re-reading D1. I am still pinged by his focus on me objecting to the "vocal" bit and ignoring me pointing out I didn't mean it in terms of actual post count - saying he town read me when I had less content... but here I gave parts of my thoughts without going overboard and he thinks that's more scummy than nothing? I dunno. It still feels like trying to find an excuse to scum read me.... but I did like that we came to the same conclusion on lettuce and Tildey l... It has also helped that a lot of his reads and thoughts today have lined up with my own. His comments on future and lora particularly felt like mind-melds that made me feel better about him. I do share his tinfoil about himself/mazer/myself all being alive - which does give me pause, especially with the kills so far being... not necessarily odd? But neither stands out to me as "oh yeah, that person was a priority to get rid of" whereas we three as town are generally wanted dead by scum no matter what we've said/done yet....though it's possible I suppose in a world where we are all three town, that the wolves could just fear we've all been too likely to be doc/watcher targets for that reason.

    Val: I have a personal read on Val as town, but even besides that - I think his questioning me thinking LDG could be scum off only a few posts - regardless of the fact that wasn't fully why I was sus of her - isn't something he does as scum himself.

    Lora: This one..... I still think lora is probably town? His actions and behavior aren't really AI - I can see him doing what he did as any alignment.... but I do think a scum lora maybe uses his reputation to shoot someone.... that's not LDG. The larger issue I have with lora is the numbers game here. If we don't start getting wolves and he lives to become king again, that may not end well for us... but not something I am going to worry about today.



    I may be swayed to consider these:



    MTR: I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other for MTR. He's been here but everything around him is just kinda grey fuzzy in my mind. The thing that stands out the most to me about him is that he has continued to hold his town read of lettuce despite not having any real argument for why.

    Listo: I almost feel like his I'm so town so so so town schtick is twtbaw? But seeing how future *just* did that, nearly getting yeeted for it himself as he pointed out - and then pivoted to being town read off it... gives me tinfoil.



    The people I am considering:



    Lettuce: I still think lettuce's intro was towny. I struggle to see a scum agenda that is like "I wanna fake claim something immediately!" -- that seems like it would draw a lot of unnecessary attention and ultimately not end well....but I suppose since she didn't *actually* do that and only said she wanted to... maybe that doesn't mean as much as I initially thought. Popping in at start of day just to say gee shucks we've only killed town doesn't give me happy feelings. I want to think her showing up to interact some is a good look, but I hesitate because I remember I had that feeling last game - that her spurt of posts analyzing the write up was towny, and it turned out I was wrong... so I dunno how much credit I should give to that.

    Claws: I didn't hate anything about his D1 or D2 - which is suspect in itself for claws... and then today the "anyone but me" vibes he gave off do not make me feel great about him - nor does how he asked people to weigh in on me vs psycho - when he has said he is fine with both of us? He said he didn't want to yeet psycho and then later that I seem fine.. which.. I'm not sure if that's just him trying to not piss me off since I can axe him or what - but it feels weird. The one thing I see in his favor is that I think maybe a scum claws tries to push a king psycho *into* chopping me? seeing me gone D1 I think would delight him... especially if psycho is town and would end up being the one taking the heat for that.

    Satsu: My initial read of satsu was based off being sus of psycho and hating how he decided to not even consider Satsu since I wanted to... which does lose some weight if psycho isn't scum... Satsu's responses to questions have been ~fine....But I am still pinged by him - notably that his participation feels like it has been limited to what has been pulled out of him. He never posts a whole lot, but there's usually at least a bit more that he offers up without someone having to prod him with a stick.
    Click to expand...
    Foxxi does swing back and forth to mtr. I'm not sure that she actually seems like she's more on him then anyone else yet,
    Mazer said:
    So llettuce, mtr, claws, and me are all pretty legitimate shots then?

    Any reason other than citing you?
    Click to expand...

    MTR said:
    I am not a wise shot to take.

    I am not quite sure why people are after listo. Nothing is really screaming one way or the other for me and more neutral on him.
    Click to expand...
    In retrospect, could this post have put people on him?
    Satsu said:
    I made a post where I said why i think toy lean town, Val because I can read Val in some way and i think I have him as TPR. FH is a tone read, dont know where else to look but is just like town FH from last game not scummy at all.

    I don't want to talk about my feeling toward Listo at the moment.

    Rest of my PoE: Claws Lettuce Mazer MTR is because I have a town read on other players. Those are valid kills for today. There are 2 scum in there.

    I will tell you an updated list tommorow.
    Click to expand...
    In fairness, Satsu showed some restraint on Listo. Of course, so did Psych. And other people. it's not like this was an uncommon tact. I also enjoy that there is no rationale here, and that he was off on mtr, but this only increased his confidence to his new short list having 3 scum.

    This POE is worth holding onto for later.

    Like Don't ignore this if I go.

    Nightingale said:
    I don't fucking know right now. I hate claws today, but maybe that makes him actually town, satsu seems off, but the only person trying to even sort of defend satsu is psycho - so unless psycho is a wolf with him that means theoretical wolf satsu has teammates that aren't bothering to try to save him? Lettuce seems town, but I don't fully trust that read after the last game either? But then...I kinda feel like there would be more opinions of who to pick of the three if any of them are wolves... but if *none* of them are.... then who the fuck is?



    Maybe I just shoot MTR/listo?
    Click to expand...
    Now it narrows to the hero and those a lot of people were thinking. I missed it, but this worries me.

    PsychoSoldier said:
    I wouldn't hate you for an MTR shot. Part of me wants to buy the "I'm not the right choice" stuff, but off memory I don't think he's given any kind of takes or anything this phase.

    I'd rather wait until tomorrow for Listo, so unless you feel sure about it, I don't think that's the right call.
    Click to expand...
    Mtr and Listo. Psych,
    PsychoSoldier said:
    Not completely sure if Night would kill MTR while actively trying to theorize against him?
    Click to expand...

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Damn, that means MTR would have been the optimal shot yesterday. Maybe that's why he wasn't really solving much because he kinda wanted to get shot
    Click to expand...
    I think this shows Psych may have been at least considering mtr as interesting to psych.
    PsychoSoldier said:
    I think Satsu and I were both thinking Listo might be the hero, so that only makes me feel better there considering MTR was the kill
    Click to expand...
    Obviously, this is only relevant in a world where Listo is town.

    In fairness, if he is it's pretty relevant.
  48. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    The funny thing is I guess I don't think that anymore.

    Constantly raging at windmills, I am.
  49. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    llettuce said:
    Im guessing because it was generic, but nothing else was going on? So they were like thats the gameplay
    Click to expand...
    Apologies, but I'm not sure I'm understanding where you are at here. Probably just me misreading something.
  50. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    I mran i thought hero is the townist but i suppose there is another
    Click to expand...
    I mostly thought it was generic stuff. Like he sometimes posts with town, hell, etc.

    But now I'm thinking it wasn't.

    But I guess a lot of people were thinking like you.
  51. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Part of it is due to mtr. Apparently a lot of people were thinking listo could be hero.

    Psych mentioned today about mtr's attitude. I didn't see that one, but apparently psych did (good catch in either scenario). I'm not sure how many other people would have speculated mtr.
  52. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Vote: Mazer
    Click to expand...
    If I go, I'd look heavily at psych.

    If satsu is not km, I'd go there and look at doubling back at psych too.
  53. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Mazer, is there anyone that you trust or townread even in the slightest? It feels like you've consistently discredited people's reasons to townread others(like my read on Future), but have not given any people you trust yourself
    Click to expand...
    As I said yesterday, I've struggled with town reading. You, of all people, also know how I feel about strong clears without strong data points.

    But it's still a fair question.

    Right now, Lora is probably top. And I can't get more than like 70-80.

    I do actually think I get Listo now. 70.
  54. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    I think Satsu and I were both thinking Listo might be the hero, so that only makes me feel better there considering MTR was the kill
    Click to expand...
    The mtr thing didn't click for me until I was trying to figure out what the hell you were talking about.


    And well.....it gives me worries.
  55. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    The mtr killing is interesting, as he was a potential mislynch.

    it makes me worry about psych a little more.
  56. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Nightingale said:
    He could have let you sway his opinion though, and he held it firm. I get the second point... though I don't know if scum psycho worries that much about getting shot by a king future, to feel that he needed to buddy up to him. Why future specifically?
    Click to expand...
    He might not be. But he'd also be trying to save his team.

    If you're scum, there's potential that at least one has already had a kill attempt. At that point, it's 7 to 3. The number of kings you have or already haven't had determines how worried you are about the hero.

    You've got your nightkills going through. You're trying to have at least one person influential with each person to get that 50/50 going the other way.

    And it's not like there aren't a few people here who are the best at getting sheepers.


    Rip would be getting mad right now, and referring to these people as Bo Peeps.
  57. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    I talked to the group yrestrday and my town lean was shot. I no longer think this setup works like that
    Click to expand...
    It's a completely different person though.

    Yesterday, you did the "In what way? i am here now ask me and I will tell you." So....I guess that wasn't a thing with the non-responses yesterday. And definitely not today.

    You liked psych holding off on Listo yesterday. Still a thing?


    Can someone else not on the list ask Satsu, so he can answer rationales to someone he feels comfortable with?
  58. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Nightingale said:
    I still don't think lora or val are wolves... probably not psycho either? I don't think he tries to pocket future of all people if he were a wolf
    Click to expand...
    Why? Was it that strong of a pocket?

    If he doesn't die there, he has to be king at some point, and future might have responded at some point.
  59. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Mazer said:
    9 players.

    Previous kings:
    Psych
    Lora
    Night

    Current:
    Val

    Not:
    Mazer
    Satsu
    Val
    listo
    llettuce

    At this point, no previous kings have been shot, and there has been no real push.

    4 is a small sample size, but it's the only real pattern we have at this point.
    Click to expand...
    Shit, I have Val twice.

    Previous kings:
    Psych
    Lora
    Night

    Current:
    Val

    Not:
    Mazer
    Satsu
    claws
    listo
    llettuce
  60. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    Sorry but i dont have a habbit to explain myslft to my scum leans. If you think my reasoning is flawed or i am scum bring to to king
    Click to expand...
    You offered yesterday, when I was on your list.

    You are increasingly flippant today, when we're getting to a bad situation, and not in the way that makes sense.

    You don't have to tell me in particular. Maybe you could tell the group. Unless there's something you've been successful at this game, that is leading to your lora-like confidence.
  61. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    9 players.

    Previous kings:
    Psych
    Lora
    Night

    Current:
    Val

    Not:
    Mazer
    Satsu
    Val
    listo
    llettuce

    At this point, no previous kings have been shot, and there has been no real push.

    4 is a small sample size, but it's the only real pattern we have at this point.
  62. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Never mind, I got it.
  63. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Damn, that means MTR would have been the optimal shot yesterday. Maybe that's why he wasn't really solving much because he kinda wanted to get shot
    Click to expand...
    What's the kinda wanted to get shot theory?
  64. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    Hello dear king. For you convenience I alanysed the thread thoroughly and i am ready to make a report.

    All the scum are here: Nightingale / Mazer / Listo / Claws / Lettuce.

    They are not arranged is scuminess order but could be as much.

    Your dawg.
    Click to expand...
    What's your rationales?

    You had mentioned you were open to questions yesterday, but didn't get back on after I replied.
  65. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    I'm just going to draw out my theories on a fucking etch a sketch
  66. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    I genuinely expected to have a strong feel today, because pretty much everyone was responding to me, and I expected someone to get into it with me or someone else and then fuck up.

    Which to means either scum has a very coherent and consistent team or they're doing the minimum (and that's a strategy-nobody avoided questions yesterday, potentially some did today).
  67. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    This is very much how Lora normally plays

    Honestly, I totally see his angle. If he's town, using his bad shot against him is ammo for scum. And I want to say the insular focus is more often town-indicative than not.
    Click to expand...
    I do see a little difference in how he played last game, but him being a cop might also explain it.
  68. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    llettuce said:
    i dont know your usual vibe, but this is such a fucking wild take
    Click to expand...
    I could see it in some circumstances. Not killing people who you think you can get a kill vote on is pretty common.

    Do you think Lora won't be a target or finding it wild because of something else?
  69. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    I made a post where I said why i think toy lean town, Val because I can read Val in some way and i think I have him as TPR. FH is a tone read, dont know where else to look but is just like town FH from last game not scummy at all.

    I don't want to talk about my feeling toward Listo at the moment.

    Rest of my PoE: Claws Lettuce Mazer MTR is because I have a town read on other players. Those are valid kills for today. There are 2 scum in there.

    I will tell you an updated list tommorow.
    Click to expand...
    This is the other thing I forgot to ask about.

    Your POE is based on your town reads, and you are confident in 2 scum specifically?
  70. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    It's not about him being passive or not, but it's about my thought on why he's specifically been saying some of the things he's been saying. But that's not an excuse to hang back, which is why I'm saying if he doesn't improve by the next phase, I'm not really willing to keep buying my theory.
    Click to expand...
    I was assuming your read was based on something you saw, not exerting influence or not. That was the contrast I was processing for myself. I'm missing whatever you've got (or found a way to work in-idfk), and going by what I can compare
  71. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    I have reasons for thinking that Listo might be on the up and up but I really want to see more from him tomorrow or else I don't think I can defend him much.
    Click to expand...
    You and foxxi say that. And I've seen more passive listo. Last game he definitely made efforts to be seen as active. But given how well this game has gone for scum, I'm wary. This would be the type of game, I think he's more likely to set back in.

    But I really don't fucking know at this point.
  72. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    EBWOP: open to understanding why
  73. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    In what way? i am here now ask me and I will tell you.
    Click to expand...
    Not trying to be obstinate here, but I bullet pointed out my reasoning on your reads already. We had a whole conversation about the scum vs. town gimmick thing. Psych agreed with me that he did not like your general points (and to be fair, he specified he still read you town and gave rationale), and he later further specifically clarified that the point on scum vs. town was wrong.

    Now, I don't want to blow up just on the point of gimmicking (and your better citation on that is the biggest "maybe I'm misreading" I have on you currently), but if I get sound critiques on my reads (like the counter arguments on Future) , I would at least re-evaluate. You may not think that my critiques were sound. That's fine. But if the person themselves thinks they are ok, that would at least give one pause.

    My concern is that often when people lock on and every incident seems to confirm for them....a point that is proven wrong is not important, etc.....that can indicate an agenda.

    And since Psych is influential and was king on day 1, it's not a stretch to imagine.

    I do realize I'm hitting on one point of your reads. The others I generally haven't loved, but this is my biggest thing. Because of timing of your reads and that I don't have a lot of information to work with, this is where I'm at.

    If I'm being unfair with any of this, I'm to understanding why.
  74. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    I'm still without a strong read on Foxxi, and suffering from the "Her or Psych possibly....please not both".

    But I honestly expected someone to make a big fuck-up yesterday. There has been a lot of consistency, so whatever the composition of the scum team, I'm feeling really confident that there's at least one person who runs a tight ship. Psych said he was townreading too many people, and I'm worried because I'm the opposite. I'm struggling to clear anyone.

    The one exception I was waiting for to see if I was wrong about one of my void reads came through. So, I have no reason to retract it at this point.

    Satsu continuing to ignore Psych, even though Psych himself acknowledges his rationales aren't good still pings me. . It feels agenda driven. I'm trying not to get blinders on, but nothing has caused me to question.

    I'm also continually worried about listo sliding by. But is that actually AI?
  75. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    do you think badger is actually workin on his game or procrastinating like the badger he is
    Click to expand...
    He's in the lab. Refining
  76. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Also Badger.

    Badger got it too.
  77. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Lora said:
    I have quite a few thoughts. I'll let know if and when I decide to share them.
    Click to expand...

    This man has the best survive to a losing endgame strategy I've ever seen. timesplitter weeps in admiration.

    Only 2 people get that reference. But they enjoyed it.
  78. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Lora said:
    anyone that is advocating for my execution is scum, or stupid. most likely both. it'd be a mislynch which is exactly what scum want.
    Click to expand...
    Any thoughts on Nightingale's bottom 3?

    Or any reads other than you being called out?
  79. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Jesus, am I that bad at communicating?
    Click to expand...
    Well that's your problem.

    He's not playing this game.
  80. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    and if that doesnt get me off the list then why isnt listo there
    Click to expand...
    nightingale only dislikes listo 4th worst.
  81. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    i would remove myself as im a town cat of the town variety also know and the village idiot right next to lora
    Click to expand...
    Noted.

    Any lean out of the other two?
  82. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Foxxi was leaning claws, satsu, and llettuce.

    I'm curious who people would remove from that group.
  83. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Claws said:
    him and rip
    Click to expand...
    I miss Rip a great deal. Great guy,

    For mafia-He is, bar none, the most effective of the provocateurs.

    Hopefully Pabs returns soon
  84. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    I get where you feel his takes aren't enough to be considered towny or even maybe you don't think it's a big leap from reasoning he's given as scum before. But for me, I genuinely believe you could look at Future's last 10 scum games and be hard pressed to find more than 2 posts per game, this early, that compare or amount to the same or more than what he's given here.

    Like I said, coaching is possible and I don't think Future is like 100% never scum here. But it would require some fringe worlds that go against what I know about Future as scum for me to flip my read.
    Click to expand...
    I did attempt to circuitously validate your theory. Wasn't quite able to, with only one exception.

    Because of this, I'm currently still leaning scum suspicion, but continuing to watch.
  85. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Listo95 said:
    My effort varies greatly depending on my mood/time/effort I actually want to give.
    Click to expand...
    I've seen that, and honestly I'm not sure I've read you well as far as what is more indicative. I actually get read too much on AI tendencies, when my mood is more predictive of some things too (like becoming flippant).

    I understand that building homes for toothless chipmunks is likely very taxing work, and may decrease other efforts.

    But because this is getting up against it, and it's hard to let people fly by without much solving at this point.
  86. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    I don't. I would be more convinced of Satsu being scum tbh. My whole issue with your take on Future is that I genuinely believe scum Future wouldn't have given as much as he did when prompted. Usually when he's prompted, he'll avoid the question or give a dismissive non-answer. I would have to believe that he's suddenly drastically improved, gained a new confidence, or is being coached really well.

    Like I said last game, he literally said in wolf chat in a recent game that he didn't want to post in thread because he's get caught. Even when pushed by his team, he neglected to post any real content. The content he's given here may have been prompted and lacking in comparison to other more verbose people, but it's a far cry from what I've come to expect from him as scum, prompted or otherwise.
    Click to expand...
    This is the best counterpoint to my thoughts on future I've seen. I'm thinking about this one, as I did not read that chat.

    I mean, I'm not sure that his takes were so in-depth as to be a huge jump, and people usually give me something when I ask nicely. It's an interesting theme on coaching coming up. And I do think this scum team seems sound. They've avoided big mistakes at this point. Which is simultaneously engaging my interest and frustrating the fuck out of me.

    I do not hate this post from you.
  87. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    Yes and MTR and you. listo could be best shot acually.
    Click to expand...
    So llettuce, mtr, claws, and me are all pretty legitimate shots then?

    Any reason other than citing you?
  88. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    Other than me i think they are good. Not sure about you.
    Click to expand...
    That's fine.

    Claws and llettuce might be legitimate shots?
  89. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Nightingale said:
    I am considering a pool of: lettuce, claws, satsu. I will hear arguments for: MTR, listo

    First the people I do not want to chop:

    Mazer: I got a read of mazer early D1 that I have yet to see any reason to think is incorrect, which admittedly was bolstered by being sus of psycho and feeling like the two of them have not interacted in a way that is partnered - but even reconsidering my feelings about psycho, I think his play since then leans him town regardless.

    Future: I touched on this already, but I feel like his play here has been more relaxed than I've seen in his previous scum games. He has offered thoughts and not avoided answering questions, though if claws is town I may have to reconsider him.

    Psycho: I feel a bit better about psycho today - some of that comes from re-reading D1. I am still pinged by his focus on me objecting to the "vocal" bit and ignoring me pointing out I didn't mean it in terms of actual post count - saying he town read me when I had less content... but here I gave parts of my thoughts without going overboard and he thinks that's more scummy than nothing? I dunno. It still feels like trying to find an excuse to scum read me.... but I did like that we came to the same conclusion on lettuce and Tildey l... It has also helped that a lot of his reads and thoughts today have lined up with my own. His comments on future and lora particularly felt like mind-melds that made me feel better about him. I do share his tinfoil about himself/mazer/myself all being alive - which does give me pause, especially with the kills so far being... not necessarily odd? But neither stands out to me as "oh yeah, that person was a priority to get rid of" whereas we three as town are generally wanted dead by scum no matter what we've said/done yet....though it's possible I suppose in a world where we are all three town, that the wolves could just fear we've all been too likely to be doc/watcher targets for that reason.

    Val: I have a personal read on Val as town, but even besides that - I think his questioning me thinking LDG could be scum off only a few posts - regardless of the fact that wasn't fully why I was sus of her - isn't something he does as scum himself.

    Lora: This one..... I still think lora is probably town? His actions and behavior aren't really AI - I can see him doing what he did as any alignment.... but I do think a scum lora maybe uses his reputation to shoot someone.... that's not LDG. The larger issue I have with lora is the numbers game here. If we don't start getting wolves and he lives to become king again, that may not end well for us... but not something I am going to worry about today.



    I may be swayed to consider these:



    MTR: I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other for MTR. He's been here but everything around him is just kinda grey fuzzy in my mind. The thing that stands out the most to me about him is that he has continued to hold his town read of lettuce despite not having any real argument for why.

    Listo: I almost feel like his I'm so town so so so town schtick is twtbaw? But seeing how future *just* did that, nearly getting yeeted for it himself as he pointed out - and then pivoted to being town read off it... gives me tinfoil.



    The people I am considering:



    Lettuce: I still think lettuce's intro was towny. I struggle to see a scum agenda that is like "I wanna fake claim something immediately!" -- that seems like it would draw a lot of unnecessary attention and ultimately not end well....but I suppose since she didn't *actually* do that and only said she wanted to... maybe that doesn't mean as much as I initially thought. Popping in at start of day just to say gee shucks we've only killed town doesn't give me happy feelings. I want to think her showing up to interact some is a good look, but I hesitate because I remember I had that feeling last game - that her spurt of posts analyzing the write up was towny, and it turned out I was wrong... so I dunno how much credit I should give to that.

    Claws: I didn't hate anything about his D1 or D2 - which is suspect in itself for claws... and then today the "anyone but me" vibes he gave off do not make me feel great about him - nor does how he asked people to weigh in on me vs psycho - when he has said he is fine with both of us? He said he didn't want to yeet psycho and then later that I seem fine.. which.. I'm not sure if that's just him trying to not piss me off since I can axe him or what - but it feels weird. The one thing I see in his favor is that I think maybe a scum claws tries to push a king psycho *into* chopping me? seeing me gone D1 I think would delight him... especially if psycho is town and would end up being the one taking the heat for that.

    Satsu: My initial read of satsu was based off being sus of psycho and hating how he decided to not even consider Satsu since I wanted to... which does lose some weight if psycho isn't scum... Satsu's responses to questions have been ~fine....But I am still pinged by him - notably that his participation feels like it has been limited to what has been pulled out of him. He never posts a whole lot, but there's usually at least a bit more that he offers up without someone having to prod him with a stick.
    Click to expand...
    Would Listo typically be making more of an attempt?
  90. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    llettuce said:
    Not scum just a lazy sleepy idiot
    Click to expand...
    What do you think of foxxi's read of you?
  91. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Unvote: llettuce

    I don't even know man
    Click to expand...
    Do you not see my point with future (I already know you don't agree with Satsu)? Am I off for not giving the same participation points you and foxxi are, given the prompts?
  92. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    Tell that to Nightingale that is in a tunnel with no light in the end.
    Click to expand...
    Other than you, do you see her reads as off?
  93. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    I'm trying to go back and challenge some of my reads. Is Lora this taunting when he's town and has nothing? I remember him taunting in that one colors/wizard game I played with foxxi, but he actually he had dees that game.
  94. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Satsu said:
    Tell that to Nightingale that is in a tunnel with no light in the end.
    Click to expand...
    Are you saying that there ain't no sunshine when she's gone?
  95. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    llettuce said:
    At the point in the thread that this is at future, while mildly inactive (pot calling kettle 🫣) he's been more engaging than most games I've seen him in at this point and I think it's a good look, though I guess coaching could be a concern, but idk I haven't been on any scum teams in this group that are particularly good at coaching anyway
    Click to expand...
    There are several excellent scum tacticians and coaches playing this game.

    On a related note, I miss kangus.
  96. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    FutureHold said:
    Like that would stop me from hiding my phone in my room
    Click to expand...
    Between future and lora, this thread has gone naughty.
  97. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Do you think Future's hard-on is scum indicative?
    Click to expand...

    Filthy sells. Claws knows what claws is doing.
  98. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Which do you feel stronger about, and do you think they're both scum?
    Click to expand...
    I'm still catching up for this morning. But based on the posts, I'm up to now its fairly neck and neck. I might have future by a bit. But I go back to satsu then, because I'm not sure I've liked any of his posts. I could be connecting dots that aren't there, but everything reads agenda.

    Honestly, my initial reaction to claws posts yesterday are not great. My initial reaction was to go more negative, and I had a slight worry about claws based on how I'm reading the scum strategy. But then I thought about x-men, and how claws sometimes reacts to any pressure. So, I'm mentally mitigating.
  99. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Nightingale said:
    What is it about future that bothers you? I actually kinda agree with psycho that his play has felt way different than his recent scum games, that he's engaging in the thread more and just overall less wooden.
    Click to expand...
    Look at the first few posts of this phase. It reads as "only doing what I'm prompted" to me. And there is an associated factor that I'm always anxious of.

    Details matter.
  100. Mazer

    Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

    Nightingale said:
    Does anyone have any good reasons I shouldn't shoot claws?
    Click to expand...
    If you get blood on you, you might get a nasty infection.

    Best I got.


    But I'm putting on record that I'm still peaked on future and satsu. Not to 70 percent yet. But they have things that make me feel are not organic.
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