Search results

Honestly, I am relieved that we took out the last scum when we did. I was getting nervous about fibbing about the cop having had to recharge, when in fact I was limited to only 2 shots total anyway. I was trying to have scum put their attention on me, which would have meant that the better town players (everyone else) would have lasted longer. But having no result the next night could have been messy.

From glancing at the neighborhood chat, it seems I rankled Nightengale both by my N1 target of MTR, and then my claim as she had pretty much cleared both of us by then.

Given that my role was limited, I

I would love to read the neighborhood chat, when you get a chance.

Well done!

Thanks for running this, Rock. This was hard not having any write-ups, and I fully expected to be killed as soon as I claimed. Only having 2 shots in total convinced me I had to get the info out, and hope others would believe me. Mazer and Blind solving the neighborhood with Nightengale was crucial to me believing them, as well as how they shared Foxxi's thoughts on Claws.

Val the Moofia Boss said:

I think it is less likely that you and 3puppies are scum than the others. Everyone else has an equal chance. I know Diva's name has come up lately as a lynch target but I don't see Diva being any more or less likely to be scum than everyone else.

Click to expand...

Val, I understand not voting yourself. Besides, I cleared you, so unless you are GF, you're safe for a while.

The reason I have Diva as potential scum is the same as Listo - they haven't been cleared, and have claimed Vanilla Town. Vote history may be legit, but could be looked at as consistent with someone hiding.

I could put Claws in there with them for the same reasons, except Claws was "read" by Foxxi Nightengale, who has played more than enough games with Claws to notice up a few tells. Even in a game before I started playing, I was invited to dead chat and Foxxi had been taken out early. I am only starting to notice a few things about different players and how they respond to poking, and some people do play very differently as scum vs town.

I also wonder if Claws is a doc and has been protecting me. I continue to wonder why I survive.

BN and Mazer both confirmed that Foxxi had read Claws as strong town in their neighborhood chat. I can imagine what Foxxi is saying in dead chat at the moment seeing this get ignored by you.

Plus, CWE was killed last night, and flipped green. CWE was a town tracker, and he followed psycho and caught him visiting me. I always wonder about a scum team having something that could result in them getting a double kill. But anyway, CWE said Listo was top of his sus list before he was taken out. That has to count for something.

It is not definitive by any means, but I think Listo or Diva is our best chance at the moment. If I am wrong, and I don't survive the night, please look at the other.

The longer we don't hear from Listo, the stronger my feelings become.

Well, he was seen visiting me by CWE, and I didn't have any action. The way I intentionally described it, even before CWE reported, I was hoping scum wouldn't think about any limits on the cop, figuring when they do kill me, I know I will have done my best for town.

I pointed out I needed another night off. I did not / could not target anyone again. The cop is limited.

I didn't want to explain that yesterday because I wanted scum to think I could act.

Psycho may have been legit when he said he jailed me, but it wouldn't have mattered since I couldn't act then. So scum may have wasted that role, and CWE caught him in the process.

Blind Ninja said:

@3puppies You said you had no result for this round?

Click to expand...

Correct.

Claws said:

Same can be said with diva aswell with the abuility chart it was syill info we could get ourselfs or was known

Click to expand...

I agree with you about this. I don't have them very far apart on my suspect list. Diva coming out first with his vote felt more legit to me, as I would think scum would be willing to see direction someone else is pointing, and follow along. I could be wrong.

I wanted to comment on Val's post above about holding off on the vig kill.

If someone has a vig kill, should they take out Listo or Diva now? If we hit scum, it's likely game over. If not, we still have time to vote the other before day ends.

Should we worry about the possibility of there being more than one traitor?

Blind Ninja said:

But did the vote analysis really give us anything that we didnt already see and comment on?

Click to expand...

This.

He gave us something we already knew and discussed, when it was clear many of us suspected psycho, and what he gave us, he didn't even follow with a vote.

LemonDemonGirl(8)-Dreyski, Nightingale, Satsu, LemonDemonGirl, Blind Ninja, Claws, MTR, Mazer
Satsu(2)-PsychoSoldier, Val the Moofia Boss
No Lynch(2)-3puppies, DivaSmurf
Val the Moofia Boss(1)-ForgottenHold
DivaSmurf(1)-CWE
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
ForgottenHold(7)-Nightingale, Mazer, Blind Ninja, MTR, DivaSmurf, Claws, PsychoSoldier
Mazer(1)-3puppies
Dreyski(1)-Val the Moofia Boss
PsychoSoldier(1)-CWE
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dreyski(6)-PsychoSoldier, MTR, 3puppies, Blind Ninja, Claws, Mazer
CWE(1)-Dreyski
Claws(1)-Val the Moofia Boss
listo95(1)-CWE

not voting: Listo95, DivaSmurf


--------------------------------------------------------
PsychoSoldier(5)- Mazer, 3puppies, Claws, Val, Blind
Listo95(1)-PsychoSoldier


not voting: Listo95, DivaSmurf, CWE


Sad to inform everyone that I simply have no result this round. I now think psycho quite possibly was in fact trying to jail me after all, but doing so as scum. It would explain why he was seen by CWE. I needed another night off.

Listo95 has not voted the entire game. DivaSmurf only voted once with conviction, and that was on ForgottenFuture, but it was after the neighborhood had fingered him - so ForgottenFuture was quite likely telling his team mates to stay away or to jump on and buy themselves cover. Psycho clearly listened.

I still feel that Mazer and BN are solid town, because of how they nailed ForgottenFuture . Claws also feels towny, mostly because of FoxxiNightengale's strong read. Foxxi seems to be able to read Claws very well.

That leaves me with Listo, Diva and Val (who I cleared, but may be a GF). Val hasn't done much to make me feel anything either way. His last post, quite softly putting sus on me while suggesting I am probably the cop, feels like he's trying to lay groundwork for later game voting.

I did like Diva's role analysis earlier.

Not sure what to make about psycho voting Listo - several of us suspected Listo for the non-activity, so was this an attempt to save himself by trying to encourage a misyeet? CWE also said Listo was at the top of his sus list.

Since late game stuff often comes down to vote analysis, staying off of votes altogether just pings me the wrong way.

Vote: Listo95

Mazer said:

Some thoughts:

Psych has the easiest claim to make. I think even he would acknowledge that. It's possible that he's not, but it is not where I see the best odds. I've already said why I don't like the holster argument. It's always possible that he factored this game different than how I expected or maybe even how he normally would. But again, doesn't seem the most probable to me.

A few people have speculated on mtr's play, and whether there is deeper meaning. I can tell you, I wouldn't have expected different, if scum has an rb. As soon as 3 pups outed himself on the mtr clear, foxxi, blind ninja, and I discussed that the obvious play was that scum would now try to block him and hope the doc stayed there.

Click to expand...

I expected to be killed or blocked on N2 after I came out claiming and clearing MTR. Do you think that the discussion you had in the neighborhood, with ForgottenFuture reporting back to scum, made them alter the obvious action? Even so, why would they not role block the cop N2 if they could?

Mazer said:

...

I did ask myself if there could be a plot with cwe. I tried to tinfoil, and anything is possible. But it seems unlikely. His biggest truth tell indicator is he actually said Listo was at the top of his scum list. Which of course, has to be word for word true.

I still read claws town.

Listo's vote analysis wasn't bad. If Psycho beats the odds, and was clean, and Listo is dirty, I would heavily re-evaluate my read on diva and wonder about him.

Click to expand...

I think we're on the same page. So if Psycho flips green, you will be ready to check Listo next, then Diva. Or Diva before Listo?
I agree that Listo's vote analysis wasn't bad, but it came well after many of us have formed our opinions. There's something about it that felt just enough to postpone more poking at Listo, and keep the attention on what already is a given that Psycho is today's target.

I also worry about psycho having a 1x iron collar or a no-kill, because of balance.

Diva's role analysis stuff feels like genuine solving attempts to me.

No response from Psycho other than posting unrelated rappy hip hop jibberish linx.

Pscyho, I read this as you know you've been caught. Just vote yourself.

DivaSmurf said:

I made a list with known/claimed roles to help me get some thoughts together. Sharing in case it helps anyone else.

Claimed
2. Claws - Vanilla Town
3. CWE - Tracker
5. PsychoSoldier - JOAT
10. 3puppies - cop
11. DivaSmurf - Vanilla Town
13. Mazer - town neighbor
14. Blind Ninja - town neighbor

Unclaimed
8. Val the Moofia Boss - cleared by 3pup
9. Listo95 -

Dead:
1. Nightingale town neighbor
4. Satsu town watcher
6. MTR town bodyguard
7. Dreyski mafia 1x bulletproof traitor
12. LemonDemonGirl Miller
15. ForgottenHold mafia neighbor

I realize we probably have some fake claims in play at this point, because this balance doesn't feel very balanced (but I don't really know anything about balancing a mafia game, so I could be wrong).

6 VTs - me, Claws, Mazer, BN, Foxxi, LDG (assuming town neighbors & the Miller counts as VT)
5 TPRs - Dead (Satsu-watcher, MTR-bodyguard); Claimed (CWE-tracker, Psych-JOAT, 3pups-cop)
2 Scum - Future-mafia neighbor, Dreyski-BP traitor

No claims:
Val - cleared by 3 pups but hasn't offered any deets or role claim? Is this typical or is it sus? Cause it feels potentially off to me.
Listo -

How many scum do we think are left? 1 or 2 or 3?
The two flipped scum don't seem to have had any real powers, what does that likely mean for the powers of the ones that are left?

Click to expand...

I was thinking about this as well. If we are to presume scum needed to shoot Dreyski before his traitor-ability kicked in, then that would mean the scum team was pretty light to start the game, with only ForgottenHold and whoever shot MTR last night. The roadblock is apparently off the table if I was jailed. But why would a town jail their cop in a simple game? It prevents town from learning anything.

Diva, I noticed you are now claiming a vanilla town role - highlighted above. I agree with your thoughts above, but I also wonder why a simple game didn't have a doc role? If there was a doc, wouldn't CWE have seen them visit me?

For my benefit, I am trying to understand the difference between a watcher and a tracker. We lost our watcher on N1, and CWE claimed the tracker. CWE - did you track me, or did you track psycho? A tracker tells who the person tracked went to visit at night. A watcher tells who came to visit the person watched. Do I have this right? Since psycho was seen coming to visit me, and psycho claimed he jailed me, the issue is whether it is believable that our mod would set up a simple game with this many powers for town. Would a simple game of this size give town both a watcher and a tracker, as well as a 4-power JOAT?

In order to balance things a little, scum was given a potential distraction with LDG being a miller, and Dreyski being a traitor. But scum didn't know they were out there. I am more convinced now that there has to be at least a GF among the scum, and there is probably another person besides whoever shot MTR.

I also come back to my question about whether Dreyski's BPV implies that someone in town has a gun? If so, for balance sake, wouldn't that mean the existing of a 4x powered JOAT is that much more unlikely?

CWE, did you track someone else on N1 or N2? Now that you've shared something - which happens to come at a convenient time for you to save yourself from the suspicion we were throwing at you - can you amplify your thoughts a bit?

Diva - can you explain why you think MTR was not protecting me? If he was bodyguard, and took a bullet for me, I am in his debt. And next game, I will allow him to use my D1 vote. As town, wouldn't the BG want to protect either the cop or the doc? Since a doc hasn't claimed yet, it seems that it'd either be me he'd protect, or he'd holster. But I don't understand a holster if he had a chance to protect a more important town role.

Now, for Listo's vote analysis list. I appreciate the work in putting that out there for us, but I don't think it really clears Listo at all. For now, I will stick with my vote on psycho. If psycho flips green, CWE is back on the top sus list for me, and Listo is still right there.

If I was watched, then why didn't you see mtr body guard me?

Sorry I am dense. Because of his color flipped red, I was thinking he randed scum, but since he had a BPV, that meant there had to be a gun in the game, which means town must have one. I don't really understand the traitor role.

If someone with a town role has a gun, who agrees with me that they should shoot CWE or Listo?

My sus on CWE is well documented.

Listo popping in today - to only say nothing except beg for time - REALLY doesn't feel right. He has read our concerns about wanting his promised vote analysis, so he knows that we're concerned about his previous behavior of begging off for time when he's scum. When Listo is town, his analysis is helpful and his reads are very very good. But in a scum role, he gives us nothing.

If not Listo and CWE, I only have a couple maybe thoughts, but I don't think I want to share them yet, as I don't want to distract from these two.

Does The fact that Dreyski was scum and had a BPV mean there's a town player with a gun? I got no results last night.

Claws said:

I trust mtr as far as i can throw him

Click to expand...

Of the people I have cleared, my gut is telling me MTR is more likely than Val to be the GF. But that probably comes from the fact that he always seems scummy.

Blind Ninja said:

Goes without saying, Doc should protect Cop today if possible.

@3puppies You should cop check someone that appears in most people's POE. There are 3-4 that are repeated.

Click to expand...

I appreciate the thought.

I don't necessarily agree nor disagree. But food for thought, by telegraphing that the protection is on the Cop, it makes it more likely that whoever scum targets for a kill goes through. Scum knowing I am protected means they might decide instead that they need to find the doc, and they may target someone else. Let's not make anything
easier on scum. If scum thinks there's a chance I am not protected, they may come after me. I hope they do and they waste a kill attempt. Or I hope they look elsewhere and that person was protected instead.

As for who should be investigated, good thoughts there. I will point out that we don't know if scum has a bomb or some ability to protect one of their own. The cop will do what is best for a town survival. Confirming a town is just about as meaningful as confirming a scum.

Claws said:

My worry with drey is the quick pile up an hr ago hes still in my poe but likrle 3 ppl in 10mins popped on

Click to expand...

I trust BN and MTR both for now. There didn't seem to be traction on CWE, so I moved my vote.

I could be talked into Dreyski. The problem I have with CWE is that I just don't think he's done anything to help town.

I don't want to vote Listo just yet because I too would like to see that analysis. But Listo has promised analysis before, and failed to provide it when scum. I recognize that Listo just subbed in, and I want to be understanding of that position.

Heck with it. I have a bunch of meetings this afternoon and I don't know how available I will be - I know it will be very little over the coming weekend.

Unvote: Unvote

Vote: Dreyski

While checking out what you meant by PR ( power roles), I came across the following description of Simple games on https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Simple_Normal

I am more confident now that we don't have a 3rd party, but I am confused a bit about why we got a Miller, as it is not listed. It may have been to try to add balance.

Additionally, that page suggests that most of the players will be Vanilla Townies

Busdriver is not listed as a role in simple games.


Do we agree that we likely have 3 scum left?

Dreyski said:

....
Part of me wants 3pups to be scum godfather clearing his goons while Void/Listo was the real cop. That could be a career defining play.

Click to expand...

I am not only town, even if I had randed scum, I am not nearly that clever. That is an amusing thought, though.

When I saw there would be nothing in the writes up to help town, I immediately realized that town would need to share info to narrow down the suspects. I figured the risks of getting myself targetted would be worth it if it gives town the best chance to victory.

How many threats to town do we think there would be in a game like this? With no write-ups to help town, this is supposed to be a simple game. Does that mean no 3rd party?

We have lost a neighbor, a miller, and a watcher. There are 3 town roles claimed - 2 other neighbors and a cop. Scum lost a neighbor (and who know what other role he may have had), but I doubt Forgotten was also GF in addition to being a neighbor. Is it reasonable to wonder if scum was given a GF in a game without writeups?

Of the common roles in a "simple" game of 15 people, I'd guess that town had 11 people to scum's 4. Town probably has a tracker, a doc and/or a jailer, maybe something else as well. I'd like to ask everyone, as you've all played a lot more than I have, what additional roles are most common in a game of this size. I don't think there's a busdriver in a game without write-ups.

Have a drink, CWE. In today's world, we can be legit lost without our phones.

Add me to the list of those who really disliked Dreyski's list.

Let me ask something else to both @Dreyski and @CWE, if you're sober enough to read this.

Instead of each other, who would you sus the most among those that voted for ForgottenFuture, and why?

Claws said:

Only reason i dont add cwe in there is cwe tends to sort himself out

Click to expand...

By hanging back and not really contributing? Folks here got all over LDG for not helping. Getting all over Diva for their bagel posts, but tequila is fine?

PsychoSoldier said:

My thing is appearances are exactly what scum operate on. It's one thing to say something, it's much more of a thing to act on it. Dreyski holding back any actual discussion/vote about Future when he was one of the main topics doesn't really read as town concerned with pushing Future.

CWE has done the kill me and find out thing as town before. In that instance he's actually daring us to something about it. Scum CWE doesn't usually do that unless he's got a bomb or something.

Click to expand...

This is helpful. I was thinking he feels like a 3rd party with a get yeeted wincon, but I can understand him adapting his playstyle to avoid people taking advantage of his truthful nature. I hadn't realized he's done this before as town.

I would still like his reads before I change my vote

Mazer said:

Why would cwe be more of a threat than anyone else we think might be scum?

Also should mention I'm still very open to the possibility that the entire train was clean, particularly if non or less helpful voters would stand our.

And the scum would have to assume that future, and to a lesser extent me, get attention from any powers that night. That's a loser for scum to play all-out defense on.

Also keep in mind that any scum would have known that future was locked in with Blind Ninja, foxxi, and me. That draw sucked for him. He even said hmso when he died. He says nothing, we basically lock it down. He answers questions, we analyze him to death.

Its been fairly common for scum to throw one of their own under the bus, and that's a situation ripe for it.

So, I give a lot less credit after the first voters.

That said, dreyski lightly sussing future, after being directly asked, and then staying off the train still pings.

Click to expand...

CWE is not more of a threat than any other suspect, but he's not less of a threat either. If CWE is town, I would have expected some reads on some others, or something that could help town in some way. His "kill me and find out" comment sticks out as scummy far more than his "avenge me" comment makes me lean him town.

I have considered the possibility that the entire ForgottenFuture train was not clean, because scum sacrificing one of their own is common, and I agree that the situation with your neighborhood could have set it up on a silver platter. Future probably told his other team mates to get on board. If there are 4 scum, I don't think all three of them were not on the train, nor do I think more than one of them was on it, because they more easily could have had a no lynch, gotten off a night kill, and come back for more discussion today.

Just like I don't think the neighborhood of you, foxxi, BN and future held more than one scum, that slim possibility remains. So while there remain two of you alive, for those of us NOT in the neighborhood, would you mind sharing here everything that was discussed in the neighborhood? Future presumably shared everything with scum, so if either you or BN was a wolf, and you take the other out, the rest of us would have less insight on the other's thoughts.

Dreyski lightly sussing Future and not voting does ping me, and I am willing to follow you there, but I would like your thoughts on why him over CWE.

PsychoSoldier said:

My thing is appearances are exactly what scum operate on. It's one thing to say something, it's much more of a thing to act on it. Dreyski holding back any actual discussion/vote about Future when he was one of the main topics doesn't really read as town concerned with pushing Future.

CWE has done the kill me and find out thing as town before. In that instance he's actually daring us to something about it. Scum CWE doesn't usually do that unless he's got a bomb or something.

Click to expand...

This is helpful.

I would still like to hear from the frog himself, but as a player who always tells the truth, and gets caught because of it, I can see this approach from him preventing us from taking advantage of his play style.

Mazer said:

Why would cwe be more of a threat than anyone else we think might be scum?

Also should mention I'm still very open to the possibility that the entire train was clean, particularly if non or less helpful voters would stand our.

And the scum would have to assume that future, and to a lesser extent me, get attention from any powers that night. That's a loser for scum to play all-out defense on.

Also keep in mind that any scum would have known that future was locked in with Blind Ninja, foxxi, and me. That draw sucked for him. He even said hmso when he died. He says nothing, we basically lock it down. He answers questions, we analyze him to death.

Its been fairly common for scum to throw one of their own under the bus, and that's a situation ripe for it.

So, I give a lot less credit after the first voters.

That said, dreyski lightly sussing future, after being directly asked, and then staying off the train still pings.

Click to expand...

CWE is not more of a threat than any other suspect, but he's not less of a threat either. If CWE is town, I would have expected some reads on some others, or something that could help town in some way. His "kill me and find out" comment sticks out as scummy far more than his "avenge me" comment makes me lean him town.

I have considered the possibility that the entire ForgottenFuture train was not clean, because scum sacrificing one of their own is common, and I agree that the situation with your neighborhood could have set it up on a silver platter. Future probably told his other team mates to get on board. If there are 4 scum, I don't think all three of them were not on the train, nor do I think more than one of them was on it, because they more easily could have had a no lynch, gotten off a night kill, and come back for more discussion today.

Just like I don't think the neighborhood of you, foxxi, BN and future held more than one scum, that slim possibility remains. So while there remain two of you alive, for those of us NOT in the neighborhood, would you mind sharing here everything that was discussed in the neighborhood? Future presumably shared everything with scum, so if either you or BN was a wolf, and you take the other out, the rest of us would have less insight on the other's thoughts.

Dreyski lightly sussing Future and not voting does ping me, and I am willing to follow you there, but I would like your thoughts on why him over CWE.

Unless someone else can provide deets, I would like to hear from both CWE, and from Dreyski, about why they should be kept alive over the other.

PsychoSoldier said:

Any reason you didn't use the check on CWE? Usually I'd cop the person I'm most suspicious of.

How do you feel about the fact that Dreyski scumread Future but didn't engage with he people voting Future/place a vote?

Click to expand...

I figured that there was a decent chance I'd be taken out because I claimed, and I had already made it clear I didn't feel great about CWE this game, so I thought if I was taken out, my posts would be looked at, and CWE would get the attention he needs. Also, I considered the possibility that scum knew that a cop was sus of CWE, so they might have bomb protected/trapped anyone who looked at him. I figured my best chance to keep helping our town was to look elsewhere.

I explained why I think the people on ForgottenFuture's train looked clean to me, as the no lynch option was just as much a possibility. Before the yeet occurred, though, I had Mazer and Foxxi both as a little sus because I felt they weren't solving the way they do as town. It wasn't until I realized that both had likely been posting a lot of their solving/prodding in their own neighborhood, and their read on Future was solid.

So my choice of targets was Dreyski, Void/Listo, and Val. I explained that Void/Listo's absense meant they deserved at least a chance to post. Between Dreyski and Val was a coin flip, so I picked and was able to clear Val. And I am glad I survived the night to share that with everyone.

It seems to me there are at least a couple more baddies to find, and process of elimination means it is likely that CWE / Dreyski / Listo are the priorities.

I voted CWE because he is known to tell the truth, and instead of denying he is a threat to town, he says kill him and find out. Dreyski at least gave an appearance at trying to solve and to sus ForgottenFuture, even if he didn't follow up with a vote. I just don't see CWE has done anything to help town. He may be 3rd party with a wincon of having to get yeeted, but I do think he is more of a threat to town than the others at this point.

I am surprised that I survived the night, so thank you if anyone protected me. Then again, maybe the doc protect was foreseen by scum so they decided to take out Foxxi.

I was kind of sus about Mazer, but after he led the passionate charge to take ForgottenFuture out, and it being so close to a no yeet, for now I don't see anyone on that train being dirty. Which leaves Dreyski, Void/Listo, CWE and Val. CWE already pinged me based on how he responded to my prodding, so I think there will be sus there even if I don't investigate him. Void being MIA needing to be replaced by Listo - I hope everything is okay with Void - doesn't give us anything to look at either way yet, but I would like to give Listo a chance to say something.

Dreyski did give a list of reads that included sus on ForgottenFuture, which makes me lean town on him.

So I decided to use my cop check on Val.

I got back a not guilty result. Val is clean, like MTR, unless maybe a godfather.

Vote: CWE

CWE rankled me a few times. The early vote on me was bad enough and I almost gave an OMGUS vote to him, but he changed his vote, I believe a few times on D1. No real reasons behind his votes - not that I would expect any - but it didn't feel like what we have seen from him in other games. The "kill me and find out" felt wrong from him - almost precisely what game ending jester would say, but also what a truth telling scum would say.

I bought into Diva's flighty/busy gimmick because it just felt real. She joined me on the No Lynch train, and it wasn't quite clear that both you and MTR would come through with a hammer. I just figure that with her busy schedule on the holiday, if she were scum then she would have alerted her team mates, and they would have coached her to be sure a town lynch went through.

Looking through the LDG yeet train, how many scum do you think were on it?

Mazer said:

I didn't love Diva's pop in style and recitation. And then, I think that was a safe vote on a sleep train that wasn't going to take off without much explanation. So, I'm genuinely interested there.

Also, I bet voidkitten would have already gotten the clues I've laid out.

Click to expand...

I read this as you're suggesting you know your vote on Diva is pretty weak, and you're mostly pressing for a reaction, from her or anyone else. But a small part of this just feels forced solving - like you're scum and you know you have to appear like the town version of yourself.

To me, CWE feels a LOT worse than Diva right now.

What are your thoughts about Claws or BN right about now?

Blind Ninja said:

While I can agree that my insistence and push on LDG is a bad look, I still dont think removing a town that wouldnt participate is a bad move. Sure we went down 1 because of it, but nothing we cant come back from.

I will say, If I was scum, would I come out and say I was in a neighborhood with others? Would I freely give that information? Would I also straight up say lynch either her or me for D1? That isnt a gambit I make as scum.


Now that we've seen a Miller and Watcher roles flip... I doubt we have too many more power roles at hand. Cop since it was claimed and potentially a doc. With 1 kill seen, doubt scum has the ability to do much more. Likely a GF role and maybe a RB to counter cop/watcher/doc. Guessing its going to be more heavily skewed towards town... maybe 11-4 or 12-3 (off chance of 11-3-1)


I dont like the d2 vote swap based on someone's musical preference. What does that have to do with the game we are playing. If it was D1, sure, mess around with some joke votes like that, but dd2 after a couple flips when we can see how things progressed or stalled... feels fake

Click to expand...

I kind of like a lot about this. Posting about your neighborhood in particular, and your suspicion that one of your group of 4 is untrustworthy. I don't understand not sharing who the other neighbors are, however. Town needs as much info as we can get. The straight up offer for us to lynch LDG or you actually did seem like a gamble a better player than I could pull off, though, especially since you know that quite a few players get annoyed by her play style, it wasn't that hard for her train to take off.

I get things wrong every game I play. I don't have anyone helping me.

I didn't see where the kill was seen, but if it was I am annoyed with whoever saw it for not sharing details. I'm happy if town wins, whether I last or not (and since I have shared info that cleared MTR, I am sure I won't last long).

Any thoughts on my CWE question?

Nightingale said:

*yawn*

Click to expand...

That was my wife's response the following day....didn't get much sleep.

Meant that I switched to Claws!

Dreyski said:

LemonDemonGirl(8)-Dreyski, Nightingale, Satsu, LemonDemonGirl, Blind Ninja, Claws ,MTR, Mazer
Satsu(2)-PsychoSoldier, Val the Moofia Boss
No Lynch(2)-3puppies, DivaSmurf
Val the Moofia Boss(1)-ForgottenHold
DivaSmurf(1)-CWE

Discounting myself, the names on the LDG train that catch me are BN, Claws and MTR
Away from that, 3pups and Diva voting for sleep/no lynch would be a good look when town was yate, unless they're bluffing and letting town do their work for them. Unfortunately, due to my role, I have no dees to share.

Click to expand...

Please recognize that I haven't cleared you, either. Your "Unfortunately due to my role ..." statement includes the possibility that your role is scum. But let's leave that alone for a day or two.

Since I cleared MTR, who do you think is more likely untrustworthy among BN and Claws?

I am back and forth - I first voted BN because of how hard he fought to get a lynch of a townie. I switched to Void because of process of elimination, and I love Taylor Swift.

3puppies said:

Nah. Viagra is a wonderful thing.

Hope your Valentine's Day was spectacular.

Click to expand...

Crap. I just noticed I meant to say "as spectacular as mine", as I was crowing - we got the medication dosage and timing right. I truly did not want to imply anything negative about your love life, despite your suggestion that mine was perhaps, unsatisfying to my bride of 30 years. I am a feminist after all, and I learned years ago to always be respectful to women.

Nightingale said:

I see some very unsatisfied women in pups life XD

Click to expand...

Nah. Viagra is a wonderful thing.

Hope your Valentine's Day was spectacular.

MTR said:

...

I am not sus on Mazer for the hammer. He said he would hammer earlier in the phase unless I am remembering wrong. I can look back later. I have to go switch libraries and drive in the snow. Go me. Not saying Mazer is clean but I wouldn't sus him for the hammer.

Click to expand...

I dunno. Mazer is way better at this game than I am. He is skilled and seasoned enough to predict needing to hammer, and if he is scum, I could easily see him telling his scum team that he would hammer. When he said earlier in the phase he could hammer, I think he could have been trying to set up believability. Then again, everyone else in this game has played a LOT more than I have so at this point, you're the only one I trust because of my result.

I would normally want to trust CWE but he hasn't said he's clean - as I recall he just said kill him and find out. Didn't that ping anyone else?

I have shared what I can. Since we have a long holiday weekend coming up, I won't be around much until Tuesday AM, save for maybe a brief moment or two late at night

But I will
Vote: unvote
Vote: Vote Claws because of the not liking Taylor Swift comment.

Whoops, thanks. My larger point was that there was no explanation given.

Foxxi voting BN, and Val voting Dryski, with no reasons provided makes me wonder if either has deets, and didn't want to put it out there to make themselves a target

Vote:
Blind Ninja


Because of the insistence on voting someone town out. Even though LDG wouldn't have done much to help solve, the town numbers are down 1.

Also, let me put the following out there.

MTR didn't feel great to me, as I got the vibe that he almost tried too hard to sound conflicted about voting LDG. I got a not guilty result on him, so he is clean unless Rock made him a godfather - which I doubt, because in a game without writeup details, I doubt. Then again, he made LDG a miller, so had she not died, if she'd been investigated she would have come back guilty.

I am also a bit sus on Mazer for hammering.

I realize that I am making myself a target, so I am hoping that I get protection before scum takes me out. Town has to share what we have learned, if anything

Blind Ninja said:

getting no yeet on d1... and no information in the writeup doesnt help town either.

town cannot win without yeets. and an inactive town hurts town in the end.

Click to expand...

Are you intentionally missing the distinction between a town yeet and a scum yeet? A town yeet of an inactive town makes scum one step closer to their majority.

Town can - and has - won plenty of times by refusing to yeet on D1 when we have no information. Don't make it seem like we're setting up an impossible task for ourselves.

I don't know how you can say for sure what the writeups will or won't have.

I am not suggesting that town should never yeet anyone in the phases to come. Isn't it just as likely that we will either get info from a writeup, or from someone sharing deets, than not?

And for anyone that cares, I know that I swore that I would not lead a D1 sleep train after I got killed for it in my first game ever. I am taking the risk that our mod is not a bastard and that this game is keeping it simple for me.

I would rather wait a day, and see what if anything the write up gives us, before we ack recklessly.

Being overly hungry for a yeet on D1 where we don't have much info, usually results in a town loss.

I don't mean to overly defend anyone for lack of activity. I just don't see enough value in a yeet yet.

Removing any town, even an inactive town, hurts town, as scum need to get a majority.

I disagree that inactive town members do not help town as much as they potentially could and should, but don't forget that they are still part of the numbers we need.

LDG is always a tough read, but the fact that she seems to rand town much more than scum, and that she often isn't all that engaged in solving, does not have a bearing on how she randed this time.

For those that want to vote her for the sake of getting info, I am surprised that nobody came out to say they're voting her because she's been on the winning side for a couple games in row.

I don't feel great about anyone yet, and I don't think anyone should, because we simply don't have info. I tend to lean BN town for simply reporting that he's in a neighborhood with 4 others.

I am not in a neighborhood.

DivaSmurf said:

I was eating a bagel while catching up and I dropped it cream cheese side landed on the floor

Click to expand...

Found your problem. Bagels are better with peanut butter. Cream cheese is best used for frosting, danish strips or better yet, cheesecakes.

Val the Moofia Boss said:

Town can only win by lynching. Scum do not need to lynch to win. Not lynching always benefits scum and almost never benefits town. Even if a town is lynched, it results in information and voting patterns being acquired that can be used later.

Click to expand...

Town only wins by SMART yeeting. Yeeting for the sake of yeeting alone usually benefits scum

Satsu said:

I already did all the math. Result says.

Yeet someone all the way. Sleep is for the weak.

Click to expand...

I don't mind being called weak. I just didn't like what you call math, when I think you really mean guts.

Claws said:

Sleep is for losers that dont want to take responsibuility for thier shit takes

Click to expand...

I wish I had gotten more sleep. I was up late repairing both our snowblower and generator last night - we've gotten a foot so far and winds are kicking up, we are expecting power outages.

I accept that revenge picks and retaliation against prior game winners can add some entertainment value, and if there's no real information to go on it's as good as anything else.

Does anyone else agree with Mazer that we probably won't get much info in the writeups?

Satsu said:

Idea here is that scum will kill town at night and we can either yeet town or scum.

If we get scum it is 1 for 1 and if we get town it is 2 for 0. If we sleep it is 1 for 0. Yeeting is mathematicaly better. And it gives info.*

*This applies to a standart simple mafia games that I believe this one is.

Click to expand...

Mathematically, you're erroneously combining both outcomes.

Sleep leads to 1 town loss (by night kill) for 0 scum kills, and is clearly much better than 2 town losses (yeet and NK) for 0 scum. Those are the two possibilities with a 0 scum loss.

Yes, 1 town loss with 1 scum kill would clearly be preferable, but in order to consider that possible outcome, you have to also consider its likelihood. And since scum has info as to who they are and who to target, along with the ability to work together, or just sit back and let town lead a town yeet, a D1 yeet is by far most likely to be town. That's the mathematical truth you're ignoring, in favor of getting information.

Therefore, mathematically, town should make every effort to avoid yeeting one of our own.

For those of us who haven't mastered the ability to read others, we are already way behind.

I appreciate Mazer's thoughts about how little we should probably expect from our gamerunner. If I understand you, @Mazer, since logic alone probably won't be enough for town to survive, we will need info from vote patterns and interactions, therefore the sooner the better. Is that basically what it comes down to?

Poke away, but I am verbose town, and since I always share what if anything I learn, scum won't want to keep me around.

It took me a few games to realize we can sometimes learn more from those who change their votes. Foxxi confounds that rule, though, especially on day 1 since she likes to poke to see if there are any reactions. I would OMGUS vote her but she got killed early last game.

I like Diva's thought about breadcrumbing. As a thought experiment, what if all of us posted our roles? Scum would have to lie, but since they don't know our roles, we'd be able to call them out if they claimed a role that one of us has.

Rock has titled this KISS, Keep it Simple Stupid. Does that imply no bastard mod activity? What do we expect from write-ups, if anything? Generally with 15 players, should we expect 5 scum, or 4 scum and 1 3rd party?

We know CWE doesn't lie, but I am willing to wager he probably wasn't sober when he voted me. And the rules don't prohibit asking, so dareIask, @CWE, can you be trusted this game? Maybe that's too direct. How about, would it be a waste of a town resource to keep an eye on you?

I haven't played in several months. I have kind of skimmed through some of the prior game threads.

It does not feel like MTR to post anything serious on D1, and my first thought was that felt scummy. While I can see him intentionally trying to mix up his play style, consider me mildly suspicious of MTR.

I am trying to understand the value of yeeting someone D1 at all. Putting prior game revenge aside, I get that after the fact, once a flip is known, we get train information, but I really don't see how we could determine if it's worth trading one of our precious town lives.