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Badger said:

Fuck off Future…you were acting scummy.

My oldest friend pulled the ultimate heel act so please back off.

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This is the way

Btw @Val the Moofia Boss really sorry I pushed the yeet on you after you were so nice to me all game

Badger said:

Not blaming you…my oldest friend (although quite magnificently)…knifed me like Rollins to Reigns, after that whole speech about keeping on eye for the next few games.

Eeeeeeevillll I tells ya….eeeeevilllll!!!

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Wolves do what they gotta

Blind Ninja said:

I knew you had to go the night we killed you. If we hadnt, you would have been pushing the thread hard to lynch me.

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Yeah I even said so on D3

Sadly no one other than Future batted an eye when a suspected slot like me died in the night

Gg wolves though

Mazer managed to fool me for so long. Had started to question it on D3 but I wasn't really into him at all

Dreyski managed to fool me completely

BN didn't fool me but he didn't get lynched either so gj lol

Oh lmao it's over

3 misyeets to lose in a game with four mafia

It looks like after all those years my desire for a truly wolf sided setup has been satisfied xD

Boom bye Eramus

Vote: MTR

I openwolf ALL THE TIME when I am a villager and so does Xanjori.

I mean. We were obviously just joking around. don't mind us guys

FUCK!!!

THIS IS THE WRONG THREAD BRO

Did you forget that our kill modifiers are non-concecutive? Let us strongman kill Claws tonight, ninja kill Listo next. Sounds like a plan?

No, we should definitely get rid of Claws. He is confirmed town and he's got me dead to rights here.

Those pesky villagers with their deets amirite

Xanjori said:

Imma say it like it is

MTR was an early TR of mine!

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I had an early scumread on MTR that I undersold because I was trying to be nice

And then I kinda parroted you

Xanjori said:

Kinda due to this post, its when MTR is picking up some heat so there is good cause for w!Dreyski to try bring attention elsewhere


but at the same time there is just a chance Dreyski is onto something, his defence of MTR was only very slight, and didnt people say Tildey is good at catching MTR?

I dunno, maybe me overthinking but there is my reasoning

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Perhaps it's time for me to take another look at my Tildey read.

Mazer said:

Probably a lot of people are going to come in after the fact and claim that they always were on mtr, and that this was inevitable. I'm not 100 convinced that's actually everyone's reality. It

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This is a fair point.

Xanjori said:

Too soon to put Dreyski/Tildey in a diff check?

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Explain?

Listo95 said:

I'm just continuing what I said yesterday from his D1 vote spot.

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No, Listo you actually ignored me when J asked you sell me on an MTR wagon. I was actually considering that this push could be right and genuinely curious about your reasoning.

Also is it a stretch to say that this response to Badger by you looks kind of like you have kinda underrepresented your read on MTR at that time?

Well, I'm guessing that the rest of your progression is in line with actually having deets.

Actually, this may be why I was initially pinged by you today... because you made a couple of posts saying that you wanted to look at who MTR's partners were, which at the time made it look like you were more interested in tying other people to MTR than actually pushing MTR himself, which I found to be wolfy. Now that it turns out you had deets all along this makes much more sense to me. And you do sound genuine right now, so I want to believe you.

Hmm. I need to think about stuff now.

Listo95 said:

Like if you genuinely think I would bus in this matter do you even know me.

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I don't know you. I think in general many wolves would bus in a spot when one of their teammates is being pushed heavily though.

Listo95 said:

And yet half the fucking game was not wanting to vote him without good reason.

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I actually asked you to try and sell me on your MTR push, remember that? I'm curious why you didn't try to push him without claiming first.

Who*

So you're either mafia or town to played suboptimally

Listo95 said:

lol.

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MTR was dying today without your claim. I think it was a mistake to claim of you are town.

Mazer said:

I don't disagree with this, but I still can't get behind the listo theory

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I understand. I think it's fine if people want to town read Listo for other reasons, though I really don't think that what I'm saying about burying already dead wolves not being clearing should be controversial.

Well, if Listo is indeed mafia like I'm suspecting then he certainly made the right move for the right audience. I guess that's all that can be said about that.

MTR spewing his teammates even as he is lolcatting

MTR said:

Maybe. Maybe not

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What, has BN been complaining about me in wolf chat? xD

Why Drey?

Who do you think is mafia other than me and MTR Claws?

Blind Ninja said:

Raising points is one thing. Pushing is another. At least this is my opinion, yours and others may be different

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"Angling to push me" was the exact phrase that I used.

Blind Ninja said:

Holy shit man... Agenda much?

How is reminding the thread of someones actual life activity downplaying there inactivity?

Again, have I tried to push you? Ive mentioned you arent cleared every time you said things havent condemned you. If I was pushing you, I would actually me pushing and voting.

All of this again is you focusing on your narrow pov.

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Because it implies that they are inactive due to their life activity and not due to them being a wolf.

You've raised some points against me today, have you not?

It's very, very common for different wolves to spread themselves out and align themselves with different sides.

Mazer said:

Maybe. But because a complete give up theory would also likely mean his team gave up on him before the dees was called out.

Which is not my current theory.

Logically it can't be both ways.

If you look through again, and take yourself out of the equation, does it feel any different?

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To expand on the previous answer a little - my read here is that the wolf team was divided in their treatment of MTR. There was one wolf who was making an effort to save him (BN) by downplaying MTR's inactivity yesterday in the post I quoted & angling to push me instead of MTR; and another wolf (Listo) who was distancing from MTR and then decided to go all the way and outright bus him due to his wagon picking up and there not being a strong alternative to say.

Alright.

Badger said:

Also doesn’t make sense numbers wise. 3 dead town. 1 neutral. Guessing a 3 man scum team which if numbers are right means 8 town still alive. It’s a risk numbers wise for scum IMO.

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Way to miss a point.

Insaner said:

MTR was looking to get yeeted, bus or not.

I would expect any mafia team worth their salt to try and claim some share of the credit for his pelt.

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As in it looked like MTR would get yeeted.

Badger said:

Honestly you think scum would bus this early?

I don’t see that being as scum Listo MO.

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MTR was looking to get yeeted, bus or not.

I would expect any mafia team worth their salt to try and claim some share of the credit for his pelt.

I expect tomorrow to be me vs BN.

MTR being outed just solidifies my team guess of Listo/BN/MTR. He was the one I'm least sure of.

Mazer said:

I don't see why listo would fake dees on a bad mtr lynch. Unless I am greatly missing something, because why would you fake right now?

Good job listo.

Assuming this is all on the up and up, the nice thing is listo waited, and mtr's defenses are probably pretty telling.

Vote: mtr

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Nah, MTR pretty much repeated what he already said previously that he town read myself, Xanjori and Future and promised he'll do later.

Made me think he was already I'm anti-spew and trying to limit information after his death rather than trying to fight for his life.

Because that is the role I have inadvertently implicated myself as.

Here a hoping MTR's gonna flip as Eramus

I was hoping everyone would just forget about that.

Ah I see, lol.

Well most of my knowledge of English comes from movies and books and such so I may know some words that aren't that commonly used by everyday speakers haha.

Badger said:

Paragon of civilty?? well somebody has probably eaten a thesaurus for lunch lol.

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What things did I say that you felt were rude?

Blind Ninja said:

When you keep saying "It doesnt condemn me"... that feels like insinuating in cleared... not to mention you've essentially claimed to be cleared.

So if you keep saying 1, ill remind you the other is also true

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I was just arguing the allegations levied against me.

Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

I feel like I have been the paragon of civility in this game. Do others feel differently?

Well, I was never insinuating that I should be cleared here so it just seemed like a random thing to say.

Blind Ninja said:

No, but youve just said "it doesnt condemn me" 3 times now

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Because CWE's info really doesn't condemn me.

If you think I am mafia, you should push me based on something other than that.

Blind Ninja said:

He did say yesterday that he went to a wrestling show saturday and had another to goto sunday evening.

The fact he hasnt done/said anything today could be something. But not knowing his life, cant really tell one way or another

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Nope

Blind Ninja said:

Ive agreed with you already that it didnt condemn you, but it also doesnt clear you...

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I never said it clears me.

Insaner said:

The only event I see is MTR has been outed as wolf

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So the productive thing here would be to look at everyone's interactions with MTR to see who might be aligned/unaligned with him.

To save you some trouble:

I was somewhat suspicious of MTR on d1 and then eased off on it on D2. Had him in my Poe but not in the bottom of that poe. Kinda started a counterwagon to him when MTR was at 2 votes and I started pushing Val.

I'll concede that it's not a good look for me.

Also BN has been an MTR apologist today I would say.

Blind Ninja said:

what are you trying to say here?

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That CWE's info doesn't condemn me.

Badger said:

I wasn’t condemning you…I just had natural questions about your play given these events.

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The only event I see is MTR has been outed as wolf

Blind Ninja said:

Agreed it doesnt condemn you. Just stating the you are no more then a read one way or the other, and not mechanically cleared.

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As am I?

Blind Ninja said:

Either way, none of that clears you. As you claim to be now.

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I'm not but it also doesn't condemn me.

Blind Ninja said:

Listo has been sitting on the MTR vote since he showed up D2... so he likely had deets from N1, but hadnt stated deets til today. At least looking at votes, is my assumption.

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Why would he not share them on D2?

I'm assuming this info is legit regardless of Listo's alignment and MTR is flipping red.

I believe that BN should be next.

Badger said:

Regardless it’s a bold move. I see it as towny wanting to get their info out just to make sure the yeet goes through. Maybe he thinks there’s a doc or something that can protect him. Claiming seems like an awful risk if MTR flips green.

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No it really isn't a bold move to either:

1) Claim the info you have truthfully
2) Seal the deal on a mafia partner who was probably gonna die anyway

Listo95 said:

Yet so many people haven't wanted to vote him :D

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Fmpov MTR was extremely likely to die today with our confirmed villager Claws pushing hard for him and nobody trying to start a counter train.

Badger said:

It doesn’t seem like a scum Listo move to me is my take. I find him generally a bit more theatrical as scum (eg Madame). I feel he’s playing it more straight here.

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I can see town Listo seeing Dreyski voting someone other than MTR and going fuck this shit I'm claiming.

But I still think it wasn't exactly required to get MTR yeeted here.

Badger said:

I’m sorry, let me clarify.

CWE earlier said he was sure his logic was 99% solid. He’s a strong town player who’s USUALLY (I’m not saying he’s infallible of course) right on these things. I am also curious tbf why it was not pushed further from his end other than that puzzle.

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Still, CWE never presented said logic so there was none for me to call out.

He also said 90% not 99%.

He also said that every single thing I posted except for one read as towny to him and he voted someone who wasn't me by the end of yesterday.

I don't get why you'd jump to immediately town reading Listo for claiming deets on an already dying wolf (assuming MTR is indeed a wolf)

Badger said:

But naturally I have questions when Listo was one of your bottom reads. I don’t think that is unfair to ask why you felt that way.

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Did Listo die and flip town or what?

Badger said:

Okay fine. Just trying to contribute to solving but apparently not allowed to when it’s you. Glad we’re clear on that.

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I did not "call out CWE's logic"

He never provided any logic

He just said "dees" and I said "bullshit"

Not much was used in that conversation

Badger said:

Let us also take a brief moment to address Insaner:

- Encouraged 2 inactive yeets. Okay maybe that could be towny but…
- Called out CWE’s logic. Mayyybeee but
- Scumreading Listo…now I dunno.

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lol

Lack claire hath spoken.

I concur

Claws
Xanjori
Badger
Tildey
Mazer
Dreyski
Future
MTR
Listo
BN

Slightly revised read list - swapped Mazer and Badger due to the former's shield on the latter and Future/Dreyski after reading their isos.

Which kinda makes it look premeditated on your part

Blind Ninja said:

I also find it amusing that Insaner basically used the same defense I had. "Would I vote/push here knowing id look bad"

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Except I didn't use it preemptively before Val has even flipped :D

After everything that's been said, my guess is he saw something in the write-up and convinced himself it could have been a hint.

Xanjori said:

Im trying to decide if a janitor kill on CWE looks better or worse for Saner.

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I don't think it's difficult to see why mafia would want to hide the truth of his "dees" in either case.

Blind Ninja said:

So anyone but future. You voting around felt very much like throwing shit at the wall to see what stuck.

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You are not incorrect. But that's majority rule for you. You have to compromise if you want to get anyone yeeted. And town has to get people yeeted in order to win.

Blind Ninja said:

You are the only one that thinks you are obvi town. Others feel different.

My issue with you stems from egging Future on to hammer D1. Then the "Anyone but me" approach you had to D2. With the consisted "we gotta go" egging on. Nobody has said anything to clear you, so imo you are sus til someone clears you.

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I have a consistent record of being opposed to voting sleep on D1. You are taking issue with something I've done as town multiple times before.

It wasn't exactly "anyone but me" yesterday. I was opposed to Future wagon for example.

Mazer said:

People can pretty much tell a story for any action. I don't think what you're saying in unreasonable, or something that I'm scum reading. Because with zero righteous kills, it's a helluva thing to want a hard clear just based on possibly letting someone die later rather than before.

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It's a bargaigning tactic. People were saying at the start of today that I should probably die. I say I'm an obvious villager. So let's meet in the middle and agree to at least let me survive another day, eh? We are all reasonable people here afterall.

Mazer said:

lol. The timing on this post and the one I just did.

The revolving door of house reads.

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It would appear that you and I just had a mindmeld. We must town read each other until the end of time now. It is bad luck not to.

I have a brilliant idea.

Why don't we ask Tildey and Future for their updated reads on MTR?

I guess you could argue that MTR calling me and Xanjori town during our thunderdome could be him wanting to:

1) Get town read for being right
2) Cast shade on both of us if he happened to die before either of us

I don't think I look unpartnered to MTR herr hehe

Listo95 said:

No I mean I wouldn't have even mentioned him as having a bad vote.

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Oh I see. But then of course you'd say that.

I don't think it invalidates my point about you not strongly pushing MTR but only putting enough shade to make you look unpartnered on D2.

Listo95 said:

If I was scum I would've tampered with the record to make MTR look better lol

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I mean that is exactly what your D2 looks like. Not pushing him hard but constantly mentioning him in a negative way.

Mazer said:

People can pretty much tell a story for any action. I don't think what you're saying in unreasonable, or something that I'm scum reading. Because with zero righteous kills, it's a helluva thing to want a hard clear just based on possibly letting someone die later rather than before.

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I had no reasons to push Val like I did if I was mafia and every reason to avoid doing that.

Listo95 said:

I like bussing but not that much lol.

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That's the main thing that makes me hesitate on voting MTR here.

Just had a scan though Listo's ISO for mentions of MTR.

No mention at all on D1.

Mentioned him 3 times by repeating the same thing about how his/Claws votes on Morrison train were the worst. I think that pairing him with another person makes it very plausible for it to be a distancing maneuver, so I wouldn't clear... realistically either of them upon each other's red flip tbh.

Listo95 said:

Lol.
Not like it matters that claws/MTR have the worst votes on it.

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Because it's either the team is exactly Listo/BN/MTR with Listo bussing MTR

Or I have miscleared someone

Maybe I shouldn't have put Mazer that high up tbh

Insaner said:

I wonder if Mazer is a third party this game

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Because he doesn't seem agenda'd but he's also so incredibly inoffensive

I wonder if Mazer is a third party this game

Just head a quick reads through Dreyski's iso. I actually like quite a lot. He posts sparsely but is pretty focused when he is here. There are both reads on individual players as well as "bigger picture" type reads wrt to the wagons and how they formed. I should probably bump him up ahead of Future at least.

Badger said:

Th n you’re not looking hard enough is all I’ll say on that sir.

But also been giving reads so don’t know why you’re shitting on me.

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You're right I guess there have been a few. It's just it's buried underneath so much nonsense.

Not trying to shit on you though just explaining why my reads are presented in the order they are.

I look at Xanjori. I look at you.

I see one person that is doing useful things. I see one that is not.

And if we didn't yeet Morrison and Val then both would still likely be towards the bottom of that list as well which makes me feel not bad for having done that now.

Claws said:

SO who wont you vote id like a list of ppl

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Claws said:

Gunna sink all of them if you flip red

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I have nothing to hide. Just looking at the player names to sort through and reflect upon my own reads.

You are confirmed town.

Xanjori is my highest townread. Super active solving yesterday and we reached a lot of the same conclusions. And that level of attention to detail simply cannot be argued with.

Mazer is pretty close as also very caring about solving during a time when I think we had a v/v thunderdome and also was busy IRL but still finding time to pop in and making it count. He is below Xanjori for me just because he didn't exactly put a lot on the table in terms of conclusions after all his process.

Tildey would be next highest TR because she is giving reads much more easily than in her wolf game where she mostly focused on role discussion. She also town read me with good reason which wolves just wouldn't do because they don't want to take me off the table as a misilemination after CWE's stuff.

So those would be my most confident town reads I would say

Next up for me is Badger. He just feels townie although I don't think he actually contributes that much to solving so he is a tier below.

Then Future

Dreisky

Both felt townish on D1 and then fell of on D2

MTR - nothing townie on D1, made a post that Xanjori liked and I agreed when he called both of us town when we were at each others throats. He's been a non-factor otherwise though, which he does as mafia, and I guess there's no reason he couldn't have just made that post as mafia.

Listo/BN - I scumread them both, and there have been a couple of instances that specifically made me think they are partnered together so those would be my top choice.

Claws said:

Why dont you hop on mtr?

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He wouldn't be my first choice. But I don't feel like I have enough credibility to push a wagon of my own today so with this being majority yeet I might do that.

Listo95 said:

*looks above*

Also 100% okay voting MTR.

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Why do you think MTR is mafia? Sell me.

I guess you weren't saying that so w/e.

Let me put this to you.

I wasn't in any imminent danger of dying by the end of yesterday. It was less than 4 hours before EOD. We had something like seven 1 vote wagons. Xanjori and Tildey came and said they weren't interested in yeeting me.

If I was mafia, I could have just left a vote on anyone, say Val, and peaced out for the night and the day would prolly end in no elimination with how disorganized everyone was. Or if not it was still up in the air who would get lynched. It's not like I had to push Val in order to save any particular person. What would be the wolf motivation in pushing Val for me exactly?

When, if I were mafia, I could have just completely ignored his slot and have him get yeeted after my death due to being a lurker and having some positive interactions with me. Because the only substantive thing Val did this game was defend me unconditionally. It would have been BEYOND STUPID for me to push Val like that as mafia, killing my staunchest devotee and gathering heavy suspicion for killing a villager. When he already looked partnered with me and was going to be a free miselim after I died.

It should be pretty obvious that I'm not mafia here IMO if you think about it for more than a second.

Listo95 said:

Still want to though after yesterday.

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I didn't see you saying you wanted to yeet me yesterday.

Listo95 said:

Still want Insaner/Future/Xan looked at even more. Especially if MTR flips red.

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What's the association there?

Xanjori said:

Yeah but we also need to yeet you cos we didnt hit a wolf yesterday :D

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You just gotta

Claws said:

Mtr is absolutly scum his post to #dadnaps ratio is a huge indicator

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Perhaps.

Perhaps not.