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  1. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I hate all of you
  2. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    morrison said:
    if we vote to execute grae and ANYBODY besides a confirmed non-convertable takes the chop by hammering, we:

    a) lose two blue dragon, which isn't great, but bring the pool of people to look at down to three. the cult leader is the n1 recruit and we know they likely used one charge of eradicate. it's possible they've used the other two and whiffed or only hit one of their targets. we know no cult member has been sacrificed, so they didn't get any re-up's on charges. so they may not be able to go for a double kill.

    we can play around with that and figure out night actions before pulling off the execute to try and protect who needs protecting or occupy who needs occupying in order to maximize the chances we make it to the next day phase. from there, we have three people to focus on, and it should be easier to parse out the behaviors of those three to come to a vote.

    b) we do the execute and sacrifice, one flips cult and we carry on. i don't know that grae's revenge passive on execution transfers upon conversion, so it's possible if we execute him and he flips cult, that we don't actually lose anybody.
    Click to expand...
    THANK YOU! At least I'm not the only sane person who understands numbers.
  3. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Vote: Pardon
    okay, so looking at it from the angle of trying to figure out who is responsible for my false results...

    MTR could be cult lying about results and hoping to pass off a misyeet as a frame. Grae or kareemah could have been converted to invokers and redirected MTR to someone who actually is cult to screw with his results. Xan could have been converted and actually used the frame ability on MTR. Val could have been converted and swapped MTR's target with a cult member.

    Of those I think Val is the least likely, he would have had to just get lucky with his targets - and choosing to swap a cult member with another player is risky in itself.

    Xan is also probably not it. I'm not sure I see him openly admitting he could have done it when he had no need to.

    Grae is capable of pretending to be innocent when he's really not, but I don't feel like that's what's happening here. I think we just disagree about how to approach this game from a tactical standpoint.

    Kareemah and MTR are both possible. Kareemah followed MTR's vote yesterday but spent this whole day today on Morri instead, although she could have voted to put me ahead of grae, and seemingly tried to but was too late. MTR has barely even posted these past two phases. All he's done is drop in to say he got results for me, vote and vanish which feels odd to me.
  4. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Looking back at the previous day, kareemah and grae were the only ones to vote for me after MTR. Again, grae is probably because I went tunneled on him. But why didn't anyone else even acknowledge it?
  5. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    it's still possible you got redirected at me and didn't actually target Val at all, but we won't know till the game ends. For what it's worth, I don't think Xan would have handled things like this if he'd been converted and was responsible for MTR's results. Although that does make me ponder. Why hasn't anyone tried to piggy back off of that? Usually cops get results and people just fall in line like sheep.... but it was only him and future who can't be cult that ended on me. Matthieu had voted for me at one point, but that I think had more to do with us butting heads. Xan voted for me... but that's it that I recall? I would expect a cult that knows MTR has false results to want to take advantage of that, but they'd probably also be hesitant to be too eager since they know I'm not going to flip cult. Which makes me wonder....
  6. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    For the record. This is why the log books are so damn important. Xan is claiming to have been blocked. Kareemah claims to have targeted Matthieu. I am the only other roleblock - and I didn't target anyone specific person. I used an ability that would block anyone who tried to target me. So either Xan could not have been blocked, kareemah is lying about her target - which makes no sense from either alignment, or jarrod redirected Xan to me. And there's no way to disprove the last option since he didn't leave his log book >.<
  7. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Bah. It wouldn't matter because I don't know who jarrod targeted >.<
  8. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Xanjori said:
    Yes, yes I can do exactly that.
    Click to expand...
    .... I can't tell if this ballsy or not. Who did you target last night Xan?
  9. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    ...but we don't need to kill two players to look elsewhere. That's my core point - and if you decide to hammer me and get eliminated as a consequence then what guarantee do you have in terms of others following your desired trajectory? It could very well end up with you looking on from the dead chat in frustration because the survivors are barking up the wrong tree.

    Assuming you believe Kareemah to be telling the truth, in terms of locking me down at night, that takes the two of us out of the equation as being responsible for killing last night. Of the other players, then, who would you consider to be a likely candidate for the player who conducted the kill?
    Click to expand...
    As far as who could have killed, it's easier to say who could not have. MTR in jail could not have. If you or kareemah were converted you would become invokers who cannot be blocked, and no one else was blocked as far as I know.
  10. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    ...but we don't need to kill two players to look elsewhere. That's my core point - and if you decide to hammer me and get eliminated as a consequence then what guarantee do you have in terms of others following your desired trajectory? It could very well end up with you looking on from the dead chat in frustration because the survivors are barking up the wrong tree.

    Assuming you believe Kareemah to be telling the truth, in terms of locking me down at night, that takes the two of us out of the equation as being responsible for killing last night. Of the other players, then, who would you consider to be a likely candidate for the player who conducted the kill?
    Click to expand...
    Because come tomorrow morning what prevents either of us from having been converted? Just because we are town today doesn't mean we still will be tomorrow. And what method will anyone have to determine that?
  11. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    FoxxiMcLeod said:
    if we assume they would kill the non-convertibles but they didn't last time so who knows.
    Click to expand...
    EBWOP: If we assume they would kill the convertibles, which seems unlikely - but they did it last time so who knows.
  12. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    Come to think of it, another reason for not eliminating two players at once comes in the form of what the cult can do with converts. Vote's can be restricted and tampered with and if it's true that you were framed, Foxxi, is that not coming from the same role with the ability to manipulate votes...?

    Not that anyone with manipulated votes can confirm that they're manipulated, of course but still.
    Click to expand...
    I'd thought that initially yes, but it's possible it was just a redirect- and in fact more likely I think. Since I don't think we have anyone left who's claimed a role that would convert to the apostle which has the frame ability.
  13. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    ...but if you're trying to get one step ahead, how is broadcasting your intent in the thread playing into that? The cult will just cheer on 1-2 blue dragon being eliminated since it plays into their win condition. They don't just win through converting people, they win through killing people and having people executed.

    They'll adjust their plans no matter how this day phase goes.
    Click to expand...
    Because come tomorrow morning, those 2 (possibly 3 since they could recruit tonight) cult will have two less people who they can hide in - increasing the odds that they will be found. And at that point you can begin to look for interactions, and who may have tried to defend or deflect away from them. The larger the pool of players the easier it is for the cult to blend in.

    Right now we're looking for 1-2 people in 6 (+3 non-convertible). If you and I remove ourselves from the equation, then tomorrow if the cult recruits the remaining town will be looking for 2-3 in 4(+3) or if the cult chooses to kill we're looking for 1-2 in 2(+3) if we assume they would kill the non-convertibles but they didn't last time so who knows. It would probably be more like 1-2 in 4(+1) -- but that's also assuming they don't hit protected targets. It narrows in on them in a way where they will be easier to spot and will probably be more inclined to defend/deflect.
  14. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    At most we have two cult members right now. Best case scenario, recruits failed and it's only one, but I doubt that since we saw kills last night. CWE being neutral doesn't worry me. If it were another player it might, but I had already felt like he's played to stay out of things mostly - and just earlier this morn he said he's not going to kill anyone this game and since he never lies that means he is harmless to us.

    This game is confusing even me... which like I told Val last night is why I've been so heavily focused on trying to get a step ahead of what the cult could do. MTR has false results for me. Is he cult trying to get me misyeeted? Did he get framed? Was he redirected? I don't have any means to figure out which it is. If Jarrod had filled out his logbook, maybe I'd have a better idea - if he redirected MTR to someone that night though he took that info to his grave. I'm frustrated because usually I would have a narrow poe and in this style of game that is impossible.
  15. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    God I *wish* I were cult this game. I feel like I am trying to talk logic to a wall
  16. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Cult games are not the same as typical mafia. It's not only about trying to remove people you suspect as cult, but also removing the places they can *hide* when you don't have better leads -- because just look at this day - We are all spread all over the place because we don't know who to suspect. And what happens if we pardon matthieu here and tomorrow comes and no one is dead? We didn't have any good idea who to go for the previous day. And now you can toss Matthieu back into that pile because why wouldn't the cult recruit someone who has been put on trial twice and let go? So what do we do tomorrow?
  17. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Yes Grae, I'm scum. Totally. Which is why I'm willing to potentially kill myself to remove what I perceive to be a danger to the town because of the nature of cult games.
  18. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    Foxxi, if you want to be the person to hammer me why did you put me at L-1? You're usually more cautious and insistent on doing things carefully - and I kind of keep going back on forth on whether you're to be trusted or not on that basis.

    It does feel like bait despite your words, hoping that someone might change their vote or cast one without looking at more recent posts.
    Click to expand...
    The same reason Satsu did yesterday. To put myself at the end like I promised I would, and warned others not to join after.

    And yes. Kareemah and I could take alternating turns blocking matthieu potentially. But that won't prevent him from *getting* converted. And I am tired of having to say this:

    WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENS IF HE IS????

    NO one is going to yeet him - OBVIOUSLY - based on these past two days. If we don't remove him we are handing the cult a perfect recruit. Unless future wants to just sit on him for the rest of the game and jail no one else.
  19. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Vote: execute

    That puts him at L-1 -- no one else should vote to execute and I will be the final person on the train. We should still use the time we have to discuss things though.
  20. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Val the Moofia Boss said:
    We can't afford to mislynch. There are 9 players alive. If the cult has 4 people then it's game over if we mislynch. Even if the cult only has 3 people, it is statistically unlikely that scum will hit a jailed target and their kill will be blocked. Whoever we lynch we want to make sure we think is the most likely to be scum. You yourself have been wavering back and forth on Graeham, so why the fixation on him? Who of the others do you think is most likely to be scum?
    Click to expand...
    His role worries me from a tactical standpoint. If he already is cult (which after last night I do feel is not as likely with how we interacted) - or he becomes cult, what then? Will anyone ever want to remove him with the fear that another town will die if we do? If he becomes cult I fear we just lose.

    As for who I feel may currently be cult, I don't fucking know anymore. It's another reason why I am focused on what I can see as the tactics behind this - because this game is managing to confuse the fuck out of me at this point. I don't know which series of events actually took place, and without some idea of what I know I can believe, I don't know what then becomes impossible.
  21. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I still think our best tactical play here is grae. He could be responsible for this, but even if he's not - the ability to threaten an extra death if he's removed is going to become more and more of a fear factor with smaller town numbers - if he's not cult now he will be prime material to become cult. And I can hammer him because until I flip those results are just going to confuse and distract people.
  22. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Not ignoring, reading things over now that I have a different perspective. Hunter also becomes invoker it looks like, so if we think it was actually a redirect it could be that too. Though I'm not so sure I think Matthieu is actually cult anymore.
  23. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Seriously people. Fill out your logs, including the action you plan to take on any given night incase you don't see the next dawn -.-
  24. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Hrm. That's something I hadn't considered. If he was redirected he may not know who he got results for. And suddenly I am again really peeved Jarrod didn't fill out his log - because it could have been his action that moved MTR's for all we know.
  25. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Xanjori said:
    Like I outlined in my post a butler or Wizard can become The Invoker, who can
    "Strings of Mithras (2x Night Action): Redirect a player to another player (or themselves)."
    Click to expand...
    I'm not sure that would work that way? But maybe? It would depend on if he was told he got results for a target that was different than his intended one - which based on your own reaction on whatever day that was I feel he probably would.
  26. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    It's not impossible. The roles are randomized, and there can be up to three of any given role unless it is unique, so I really don't doubt Kareemah also began as a butler.

    I told badger N1 I was a butler, and D2 while I didn't outright claim - I was adamant that jarrod could not have killed anyone because he had been my N1 target. D3 I commented asking for assistance to help not be converted because if I had used my concentrated wine that night I would have prevented whoever tried to heal me from doing so.
  27. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I thought you were claiming maid? How are you able to know if a target was blocked?

    As for myself, I have claimed. Just not blatantly like most. I'm also a butler. I was lamenting jarrod not having filled out his logbook because I wondered if he had redirected you to me last night. I used my final charge of concentrated wine because I thought people might try to target me and it would allow me to prove my action.
  28. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    morrison said:
    well, technically he did, just he put it out in public and is missing a night action or two.
    Click to expand...
    Yeah I know. I meant for what he did for the past couple of nights.
  29. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I really wish jarrod had left a logbook -.-
  30. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I'm not sure I follow. What reason do we have to trust you right now, and why would someone blocking you be ridiculous? And if you think that kareemah or matthieu could be cult, why are you voting on me? And if you're suspicious of both myself and matthieu - again, why vote me instead of letting me go after another target you are suspect of? None of what you are saying is making any sense to me. And you aren't even considering you may not have been targeted, it could have been *who* you targeted.
  31. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Xanjori said:
    Based on roles and the fact I keep getting RB'd at night then surely Kareemah or Matthieu has been converted to cult.
    Click to expand...
    This is awful logic Xan. Clearly there is no possible way someone who is town could be suspect of you and blocking you.
  32. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    @Matthieu - I'm sorry. I'm beginning to think I conf biased myself into believing you are scum. The back and forth we had last night doesn't feel like how you would approach my suspicion for a second day in a row if you actually were though. I think you'd be more likely to latch onto MTR's results to argue for my yeet, rather than trying to discuss with me what I felt about you.

    But you're right, we are *both* going to remain distractions, and my concern about your passive remains.... if the cult turn you, the argument you've made about not wanting another town to die with you is a powerful tool - do you understand why that made me paranoid? We saw cult kills last night, which means tonight they can recruit - and tomorrow you or I could actually be cult.

    There are 9 players, 3 are immune. At most there is currently two cult, and I think that's likely given it seems they killed last night. If you and I remove ourselves from this they have less room to hide in. So maybe that's our best option?
  33. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Xanjori said:
    Firstly I dont really get why your investigation didnt come to light yesterday. But also wondering if it was a scum play why go for Foxxi of all people, there are far easier targets. I think that there has to be something there though, or otherwise its just too confusing.

    Vote: Foxxi
    Click to expand...
    So you're just going to completely ignore the fact that I laid out how it's mechanically impossible for me to have been converted?

    And it has nothing to do with how easy a target I am or not - MTR would have been the target of the frame ability - and then whoever he had checked, didn't matter *who* he would have been told cult. It just happened to be me.
  34. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    You've been out to get me from the start. You're the reason I claimed because - despite other players being quiet - you decided to single me out despite it not necessarily being alignment indicative for me to be quiet in a game. I've certainly been posting theories and thoughts and outright stating what night actions I used, though. Not just because I was at risk of elimination because I was trying to figure out what was going on.

    You were willing to give Jarrod a free pass for being quiet and only speaking out when about to be eliminated so isn't even something consistent this game.
    Click to expand...
    I hardly think prodding you early on counts as being out to get you - that's being unfair. And it's exactly *because* it's not alignment indicative that I chose to. Because if I didn't get some kind of reaction I wouldn't have something to read -- and I will go for the people I feel I can get a better read on over those I am less familiar with. Maybe I am tunneled. This exchange doesn't feel like scum you. I'm going to sleep on it.
  35. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    What have I not been doing?
    Click to expand...
    All it feels like you've done is show up to argue why we shouldn't yeet you. You didn't even begin offering thoughts or theorizing until your neck was on the line
  36. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    Jarrod may have redirected something to himself, maybe?
    Click to expand...
    Why on earth would he redirect something to himself??
  37. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    Vote: Foxxi

    I think you're too scared to kill me at night because you believe there could be WIFOM in play with my night action and you don't want to risk a cult member potentially being killed or failing to convert me and thus wasting a precious night action.

    The other theory is that you're just tunnel visioning and offering to be the one to hammer me in such a situation accomplishes nothing but wiping out two members of the blue dragon at once.

    Willing to switch to Morrison, though, since I do wonder if we perhaps did wipe the cult out early but the game is continuing simply because the king cannot be trusted.
    Click to expand...
    No. Just no. First if I were cult I would just ignore you. You're not doing anything and there are easier targets. Secondly people just died, so while morri could be cult - I don't think he is at all - he is not the reason this game hasn't ended.
  38. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Those deaths are fucking with me. Satsu makes sense - he was a claimed doc. But why jarrod?
  39. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I'm going back to what we *should* have done yesterday - and I am *still* willing to be the hammer because I'm not going to be scared into ignoring my reads
    Vote: Graeham
  40. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    So you didn't check me last night, you were jailed.... and for fucks sake, it is not mechanically possible for MTR to have accurate results on me. I was not the N1 convert which is abundantly clear since the cult tried to murder me D2 with the bleed. The next conversion would have been n3/4 and that was clearly badger - I was in jail n5 so could not have been converted that night, and MTR's results are for n6 - even IF I had been converted that night he would not have gotten cult results the same night I was turned. And again, even IF I had been turned n6 - do you really think I come into the day and offer to put my own life on the line for my belief that grae is cult? That would be the dumbest thing ever.
  41. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    And why the fuck wasn't grae the jail target. I thought the whole point of backing off was so he could be jailed
  42. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    MTR said:
    I am not sure who all has a kill without going back and checking the role cards. So I guess cult did a double kill. Haven't checked cards yet for that again. Just woke up from a nap. If they did a kill though then at least cult didn't recruit.
    Click to expand...
    You never answered me before. You popped in, voted me, vanished, and now seemingly don't care about me. Did you try to check me again last night?
  43. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Maybe? CWE can kill too I think, but those are the only possibilities now if I'm not mistaken. Did you jail grae?
  44. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Val the Moofia Boss said:
    If you're going to read into it, the neutral role, the Possessor, can force people to vote a specific target and the player cannot state that they are being forced to vote. The possessor has three charges of this ability. But I'd imagine that if someone was being forced to vote, they would just drop the vote and not say anything, rather than adding the line "can't off him" after, so I doubt Future was forced.
    Click to expand...
    Pretty sure having the reaper means there is no possessor
  45. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I still think this is folly though
  46. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    FutureHold said:
    If Day ends right now, there is a 50/50 chance that Grae and Satsu both go out, if Grae is the hunter, which i believe he is
    Click to expand...
    I think this is a mistake, but I'll follow your lead. Though my unvote at this point isn't needed
    Vote: Unvote
  47. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Vote: Execute
    Same as satsu
  48. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Kareemah said:
    Cult doesn’t have a cap off?
    Click to expand...
    They do - but if we let them get to that cap, even if we then do hit one, they will just replace it with someone else.
  49. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Kareemah said:
    We can’t win if we keep lynching town people, I feel like we should come up with a plan so we’re more sure about who is town. I feel like we should use our abilities to try to weed through who is cult.
    Click to expand...
    We also can't win by not yeeting people. Every time we don't yeet someone, we go into another night where the person we just let go could be converted - and the larger the pool of players, the more room the cult has to hide.
  50. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Kareemah said:
    Who was it that randomly suggested ldg,and now she’s gone, I feel like we should investigate that instead of possibly lynching more town
    Click to expand...
    I mean, it was me who originally commented that her saying she didn't do anything the previous night was something of note - but it was jarrod and satsu who first voted for her, and jarrod cannot be the CL. Satsu could be, but I still think grae is more likely.
  51. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    This is a cult game. You all aren't thinking logically. Even if I'm wrong and he's not cult right now, if we back off every time someone is up on trial the cult is just going to run around behind us with glee recruiting every person who gets pardoned - because do you really think they'll end up on trial again immediately? No. People will squirrel and chase someone else. And even if he does end up on trial again - the argument he's using right now will be just as valid then as it is now.

    This game is only going to be won for us if we can remove the shadows the cult can hide in.
  52. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Huh. I thought I hit quote. That was to MTR
  53. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    So you pop in, vote for me, vanish, and come back with this? Once you are caught up I'm curious what you think.
  54. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I'm still not convinced his argument that someone will die with him isn't just fear tactics. It's the perfect way to keep people from ever following through with yeeting him, and the only reason I am not voting yet is because I am still willing call that bluff.
  55. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    I'm not convinced we can afford another repeat of the LDG situation.

    We supposedly have a Prince. If he distrusts me, can't he choose to execute me at night or am I thinking of a different role and ability combo? That'd at least prevent the person who hammers me dying and turning this into a two for one elimination.

    Which is the main reason I'm arguing so fiercely against it.

    Not really sure why I'm even a candidate for today other than deflection away from Jarrod, perhaps. Who should have been the focus after LDG proved to be the wrong move.
    Click to expand...
    The prince could in theory jail and execute you to prevent an extra death if you really are the hunter, yes.

    As for LDG - yes she was town. And you know what? I'd yeet her again. Why? Because this is a cult game as you keep saying I am ignoring. She came into the day and said she had done no action the night before. If we had all collectively shrugged and said "oh, okay then" - I know if I were cult I would gobble that up so damn fast. A player who will be ignored while claiming to do nothing? Yes please.
  56. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Xanjori said:
    Im looking at the votes and Im stuck in two minds. "Did he only get 3 votes because scum tried to force and this is just the result?" or "Did he get 3 votes because scum really avoided the train?"
    Click to expand...
    If scum tried to force this, then you have three suicidal scum, because all of us offered to hammer him - and if we're scum forcing a misyeet on the hunter we'd die on that hammer. This is a case I feel of town apathy because they feel lost imo.
  57. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    It is a weakness of mine to get tunneled on a player and not listen to them.... once I think they're scum, I feel like anything they're saying is of course going to be lies and meant to confuse and distract. It is something I need to work on, so I apologize if it feels like I was doing that.
    That said, no - the mechanics of this game would only allow at most two cult right now, if there was a successful recruit n5/6 - so your concern that yeeting you would lose us the game because of numbers is false.
    Whispers are public, unless someone has whispered CWE today, no one has this game so far, and even if they had it would be foolish to automatically assume they were scum trying to strike a deal with him. And yes, he's neutral and his wincon is to just stay alive so he is a wildcard. But if we as town waste time yeeting him - that's a whole nother cycle the cult gets to kill/recruit in, and we *know* he's not - and cannot be cult - so no thank you.
    Your night actions look sound, but don't prove anything since there hasn't been any actual results from them.
    And the thing that concerns me the most about you right now grae - is that this concern you express about not wanting to be the yeet because it would take out two town is absolutely *perfect* cover for cult. Which is why it is sending up red flags for me. Especially since once people actually began to consider you, you no longer wanted to let the people you claimed to be suspicious of take you up on that - you began fighting to convince people to be afraid of that loss entirely. Do you really not see why that's got me squinting at you?
  58. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Kareemah said:
    What’s ate
    Click to expand...
    Appeal to empathy - it's something grae does regardless of his alignment to avoid being yeeted, so it's not in and of itself suspicious, the more suspicious thing to me is that he is calling my behavior suspicious, and voting satsu - both of us who said we would be willing to hammer him - and instead of taking us up on that offer if he's sus of us and actually the role he's claiming - he's still trying to deflect.
  59. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Grae.... you're voting Satsu. You tried to appeal to me through AtE and when that didn't work said that my suspicion of you is suspicious. If you are really the hunter you claim to be, why are you so adamantly against letting the people you're suspect die to your passive?
  60. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I will say I don't think satsu is partnered with grae. It would be an interesting play to pretend to bleed a buddy who is immune, but I don't think the way the two interacted about it feels staged?
  61. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    That being said, remember a few games back when you were convinced I wasn't worthy of trust, Foxxi, only for me to be entirely innocent? This is another repeat of that particular situation.

    You also know how much I hate being eliminated early, so if I'm lying then everybody is free to off me early if I'm not telling the truth. That's how trustworthy I am in this game.
    Click to expand...
    ......AtE from you is completely NAI - so you're not really giving me anything here that convinces me I'm wrong grae. Before you were all about accepting someone being sus if they were willing to accept the risk of your threat. Now you're trying to argue anything to avoid actually letting someone follow through with that. You're going to need to give me something else here if I'm wrong grae. Who do you suspect if it's not you?
  62. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    FutureHold said:
    I wasn't talking about you
    Click to expand...
    Yeah I figured that out, lol
  63. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    dang I need some sleep, that's not even what you were talking about XD
  64. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    FutureHold said:
    I don't think Satsu is it, Satsu is bleed immune, i mean they could've kept it after converting but i doubt it
    Click to expand...
    I wasn't told I was bleeding until night began.
  65. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Val. What did I tell you. Geeze -.-
  66. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Satsu said:
    I am willing to be last player on execute. If Greaham goes to trial plz jail Foxxi. If he flips BD execute her. If he flips cult then pardon.
    Click to expand...
    I'll second this. I already offered to be the last one on his train.
  67. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Satsu said:
    How do you know that?
    Click to expand...
    the fact that MTR came into the day hot for Xan and the mod had to correct results, and the badger later flipped apostle with the ability to create framed results. It's a logical assumption, combined with knowing he's wrong about me.
  68. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    FutureHold said:
    what question? Also Foxxi has been defending me all of last phase, Foxxi figured out who I am and I trust Foxxi. I am not the vote to go with
    Click to expand...
    @Val the Moofia Boss
  69. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    So you attempt to deflect away to jarrod, and when that doesn't work circle back to me? I am not cult - either MTR is doing some kind of mind bending scum play to attempt to yeet me - or as already shown once - the openly claimed paladin got hit with a frame ability. There is no world in which I as scum bus my partner on day two while simultaneously bleeding myself without having any indication that anyone who could heal it even *exists* since the game random roles.

    Grae on the other hand has done what? Use his early claim to attempt to keep people from even daring to consider him out of fear that they'll be yeeted with him - proclaiming that anyone who wants to should at least be willing to be the hammer.... and the first time someone says "yeah sure, I'll do that" he decides to throw bleeds at people. Yeah. No.
  70. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    Vote: Foxxi

    Looking back, you repeatedly claimed to trust me but never attempted to whisper me. You did whisper players confirmed to be cult and third party, though. Moreover, in hindsight I think you would have backed off Listo rather urgently in order for town not to lose any charges for their abilities (which hurts the blue dragon faction far more than it hurts cult, from what I can tell).

    First person to join Foxxi on voting me gets bled, by the way.
    Click to expand...
    First, I have trusted many players I have not whispered. Secondly I whispered badger back on D2 - before it was even possible for him to have been cult, so you trying to argue that I whispered someone to be confirmed cult feels like reaching. Listo.... I am ashamed about. I thought he was fool early on, and convinced myself he was doing that as cover for being reaper. I confirm biased myself into my read... and it hurt me too. And as for your threat - how the fuck is that supposed to convince me I'm wrong? In all likelihood you're just going to bleed some other town who votes you, and that makes you town? I'm willing to stake my life you are cult - isn't that what you kept claiming to want? And the moment someone actually takes you up on it you'll start bleeding anyone who follows them?
  71. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I'm
    MTR said:
    Foxxi is the way to go this time around. I am sure she will come up with something but Foxxi is the way to go.

    Vote: Foxxi
    Click to expand...
    either you are cult trying to pull some sort of half baked attempt to misyeet me, or you've been targeted for a frame again - because I am absolutely not cult.
  72. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    FutureHold said:
    Vote: Xanjori
    Someone who's been on my sus list for a bit, I just want to see how they react
    Click to expand...
    He may have been recently recruited, but he absolutely is not the CL due to the mod mix up a couple days back
  73. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I fucked up, sorry >.< I woke up and posted before even getting up to shit or get my coffee, and didn't realize how many votes she was actually at. Really shouldn't try to do things before coffee >.> I stand by my opinions though, and now that I've had a chance to actually read and catch up with what happened in the last phase I'm going where I would have gone if I'd been able to then
    Vote: Grae
    I'm calling his bluff. I'll be the hammer if no one else wants to do it
  74. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I wasn't silenced, no. I just had some personal shit come up I had to deal with. I feel LDG is probably telling the truth here, but that lack of doing something isn't something I am willing to risk
    Vote: Execute
  75. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Xanjori said:
    Morrisons post got me thinking. Foxxi what were you and Badger whispering about?
    Click to expand...
    Who we were suspect of - psycho and claws primarily at that point.
  76. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I am also concerned about LDG saying she didn't do anything. If she'd been recruited last night, and her action had been tracking the CL to herself that is absolutely not something said CL would want announced, and it's extremely risky to just make up a track and hope you guess right.
  77. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I'm not sure if I agree with getting to it with rng... but jarrod is someone who is in my poe.

    Poe is Val, grae, satsu and jarrod.

    Of those I think val is less likely, satsu concerns me because the things he's said are easy to fake with the info the cult would have... but I am not sure badger is the sort to put his CL in his list. So between grae and jarrod - I will add pressure
    Vote: Jarrod
  78. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    morrison said:
    on n2 the n1 recruit becomes cult leader and can't do anything besides eradicate. nobody died n2, so they either chose not to act, were blocked by the butler's serve wine action or whiffed on the targets and hit death immune or protected roles. n3 is the earliest badger could have been converted. if he was converted n3, then this past night phase(n5) was a potential recruit night, and given no one died, that would be the likely scenario unless a block or total whiff occurred, which feels unlikely. if badge was converted n3, then at most we have a cult leader(n1 recruit) and a n5 recruit.

    if the n3 recruit failed, that means badge was converted n4, the same night he was reaped by psycho, which left only the cult leader with no recruit charge for n5.

    unless all actions immediately recharge upon a new leader being promoted, which then fucks everything up cause that means a recruit was possible on n2.
    Click to expand...
    I don't think it would work that way? It would make it extra hard to actually weed out the cult, but I'm honestly not sure. Do new kings get new charges?
  79. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Satsu said:
    Very low I'd say. This is a 19 players game instead of 16 man standard and there are still roles that I don't think are in this game.
    Noble and princess.
    Click to expand...
    Low but not impossible. We had a double of a role the last time we ran this game too. I wouldn't expect more than one double though
  80. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    morrison said:
    let's just put some info straight down to paper here...

    conversion immune, confirmed
    morrison - king
    cwe- the alchemist

    roles, claimed
    kareemah - the butler
    cwe - the alchemist
    mtr - the paladin
    matthieu - the hunter
    LDG - the observer

    roles, confirmed
    cwe - the alchemist
    mtr - the paladin
    LDG - the observer

    wild cards
    xan
    foxxi
    val
    future
    satsu
    jarrod

    if i'm missing anything on these lists, please feel free to update them. i'm sure i didn't pick up on some possible claims.

    what are the chances there were any double-up's on the non-unique roles?
    Click to expand...
    Prince is also a guaranteed unique role I believe, and I think it is also conversion immune
  81. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Satsu said:
    If Xan didnt lie about being redirected to himself then drunk wasnt n1 recruit.
    If I was right with knight attacking me n4 then knight wasnt n1 recruit.
    If knight attacked me then I wasnt n1 recruit either because cult doesnt have heals.
    Click to expand...
    The first is true, the last is true if we take your word about protecting yourself. But why are you assuming it was a knight attacking you, and that that knight would not be cult attacking you on n4?
  82. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    LemonDemonGirl said:
    >No whispers
    >No deaths
    Lol?
    Are you sure @VoidKitten ?
    Click to expand...
    who did you track and where did they go?
  83. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I had really hoped the game was going to end with psycho's yeet, but that was too much to hope for it seems...odds are a recruit was at least attempted I imagine, and I agree with Grae that the investigation roles would be the most likely targets, but Val is also right - even if MTR hasn't been converted, he can't check people faster than the cult could recruit so this is going to be difficult.

    I don't think MTR, Xan, LDG or kareemah were the original recruit. MTR and Xan because of yesterday, and LDG because she successfully tracked psycho the night prior.
  84. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I don't think there are issues with it. Morri was talking about doing it yesterday, but not wanting to put the action in too early... my concern is he has habitually not been here at EoD - which is getting really close
  85. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Vote: execute?
    We can't actually yeet him without Morri using his king thing though, because badger can't vote
    @morrison -- deadline is approaching, don't forget to don't forget to put that in please?
  86. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Or they were occupied and have a role where they wouldn't know they had been. I think I hate this game.
  87. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Satsu said:
    You can also look at it like this.
    If you visited a player n1 and you are alive then that player wasnt Mazers target.
    Click to expand...
    Mostly. Unless they were death immune or healed by someone else.
  88. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    From my pov the only things that can have happened are Mazer tried to kill me and was prevented, he tried to recruit me and that was prevented, or psycho was redirected and we have no clear idea who his circle actually fell on.

    If this is a world where Mazer tried to kill N1, then the cult is just gone and yeeting psycho ends the game.

    If he tried to recruit anyone, whether the target was actually me and it was prevented, or someone else that psycho was redirected to - we absolutely have at least one cult member.

    I don't see how we can know which is the case until after psycho is gone though. I don't think psycho was trying to mislead us after admitting he is the reaper, he's got no motivation and it's not his style I don't think... so he genuinely believes there is still cult, and was probably also legitimately trying to search for it - which makes me wonder if I have been too quick to write Val off as just doing Val things.
  89. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Matthieu said:
    I didn't target Foxxi with a bleed and I can prove it, if need be, since I have a charge left. Which has the added benefit of also proving that I haven't been converted to the cult.
    Click to expand...
    This is awful logic grae XD you offering to bleed someone proves nothing. If you were converted N1 then you are the cult leader - who could back this offer up - or you are an invoker.... and have a cult leader who can bleed someone to make your claim seem true.
  90. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I wonder if psycho had been redirected, or had his targets swapped, if he would even know? Is it possible the circle landed on someone else and he wouldn't even know who? Damnit. Now I wish Listo were still here >.< I understand a lot of the roles and how they function, but not all the mechanical minutiae
  91. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Although this game certainly hasn't had nearly as many deaths as I would expect
  92. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    morrison said:
    he was immune to conversion and would revive if killed at night as long as he kept one soul available. probably figured if you were successfully recruited there wasn't much the cult could do to him, but an active cult could help to thin the herd for his win condition.
    Click to expand...
    I suppose that would make some amount of sense... though while the reaper is certainly hard to kill, it's not impossible. They'll only revive from one attack in a night, and these games often have a few of those running around.
  93. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    morrison said:
    so badger has been reaped, therefore still shows/counts as a living player, correct? which means we can't reach the execution off unanimous votes, yes?
    Click to expand...
    And yeah... I think you're the only way we actually get to execute today
  94. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    I don't know what to make of this right now, but whatever happened N1, it wasn't me becoming cult. But I also don't see why psycho would lie about this right now? He admitted to being the reaper - he's going to be executed without a doubt - what does he have to gain by tossing out false info here?
  95. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Well that was not what I expected....I was the target? It doesn't make sense. If I were the N1 target of the circle, why didn't psycho just reap me? Or show even the slightest bit of suspicion of me? But mostly, why leave me alive if he knew Mazer targeted me?
  96. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    PsychoSoldier said:
    Foxxi, what do you think of Val?
    Click to expand...
    I think Val is Val. I haven't had any issues with him, but I do think your focus on both him and LDG - two of the arguably easiest targets to go after, is not like you as town.
  97. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    PsychoSoldier said:
    I figured he may have targeted you again for a night chat. I also thought you guys whispered after that, but looking at it, that's not the case. It doesn't change the fact that I claimed to Badger, whether you know it or not.

    The silence on Badger is a maybe, and would be the most likely scenario to explain how today's gone down. Though honestly, not sure how quickly the reaper would have been able to get to it. Unless cult can somehow silence and wanted to frame me.

    Again, I don't understand the full mechanics of this setup but I targeted Badger for defense last night. That's a fact.
    Click to expand...
    If badger was silenced instead of reaped, only the reaper could have silenced him for the whole day. All the other roles that can potentially silence only do so for 12 hours, so he would be able to talk by now. If he doesn't say anything by the end of this day he either got reaped, or silenced by the reaper to frame you. And as I mentioned earlier, the reaper could only have two - maaaaybe three - souls when this day began, and spending two of them to frame you doesn't seem all that likely to me.

    The cold hard truth is this: If badger is dead tomorrow morning, your claim to be a knight that protected him last night cannot be true.
  98. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    PsychoSoldier said:
    I don't know what could have happened that Badger died even though I defended him, but that's what happened. I'm pretty sure he also told you about my knight claim so you know it's legit.
    Click to expand...
    I don't buy this. First, if you are a knight that targeted badger with a defend, he would not be reaped. It's possible the real reaper saw you were tracked to badger and silenced him before he could talk to try to frame you? But if badger does die to a reap, your knight claim cannot be true. Secondly - I had actually thought you were hinting at physician earlier in the game when you insisted the kills N1 had an explanation other than cult, and badger and I haven't had any private conversations since D2, so no - he didn't tell me your claim and I have no idea why you would assume that he had.
  99. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    If a knight stopped a cult attack, wouldn't there be a dead cult leader?
  100. Nightingale

    Mafia 1 - Throne of Suspicion

    Satsu said:
    Ok this is a weird day so here is what I am at.

    Claims:
    Greaham hunter
    LDG observer
    Kareemah butler
    CWE alchemist

    Breadcrums is could be totallt wrong about his

    MTR pallandin
    Val court wizard
    Xan Maid

    Any ideas?
    Click to expand...
    You didn't imply you thought there were any knights earlier, so if you aren't claiming knight, what makes you so sure one exists that would make a second one unlikely?
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