Fingers of Suspicion

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Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

Mazer

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I talked to the group yrestrday and my town lean was shot. I no longer think this setup works like that
It's a completely different person though.

Yesterday, you did the "In what way? i am here now ask me and I will tell you." So....I guess that wasn't a thing with the non-responses yesterday. And definitely not today.

You liked psych holding off on Listo yesterday. Still a thing?


Can someone else not on the list ask Satsu, so he can answer rationales to someone he feels comfortable with?
 

Mazer

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He could have let you sway his opinion though, and he held it firm. I get the second point... though I don't know if scum psycho worries that much about getting shot by a king future, to feel that he needed to buddy up to him. Why future specifically?
He might not be. But he'd also be trying to save his team.

If you're scum, there's potential that at least one has already had a kill attempt. At that point, it's 7 to 3. The number of kings you have or already haven't had determines how worried you are about the hero.

You've got your nightkills going through. You're trying to have at least one person influential with each person to get that 50/50 going the other way.

And it's not like there aren't a few people here who are the best at getting sheepers.


Rip would be getting mad right now, and referring to these people as Bo Peeps.
 

Mazer

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The mtr killing is interesting, as he was a potential mislynch.

it makes me worry about psych a little more.
 

PsychoSoldier

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I think Satsu and I were both thinking Listo might be the hero, so that only makes me feel better there considering MTR was the kill
 

llettuce

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I think Satsu and I were both thinking Listo might be the hero, so that only makes me feel better there considering MTR was the kill
I could get behind this, hes been playing very jestery but wasnt the hero

Has he given us anything other than "towniest town"
 

Satsu

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You liked psych holding off on Listo yesterday. Still a thing?
No i thoght listo was a hero and nightingale was scum. i was wrong on listo but my read on nighignale stays the same.
 

Mazer

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I think Satsu and I were both thinking Listo might be the hero, so that only makes me feel better there considering MTR was the kill
The mtr thing didn't click for me until I was trying to figure out what the hell you were talking about.


And well.....it gives me worries.
 

Listo95

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I feel its been obvious what I've been saying. If you wanna execute me go ahead.
 

PsychoSoldier

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Mazer, is there anyone that you trust or townread even in the slightest? It feels like you've consistently discredited people's reasons to townread others(like my read on Future), but have not given any people you trust yourself
 

llettuce

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I feel its been obvious what I've been saying. If you wanna execute me go ahead.
Is there a hidden message that im too autistic too get or just that you're town

I got it this is his way of saying hes the kingmaker
 

llettuce

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Mazer, is there anyone that you trust or townread even in the slightest? It feels like you've consistently discredited people's reasons to townread others(like my read on Future), but have not given any people you trust yourself
Because mazer is scum perhaps???? (im shooting blanks here, lost as fuck, errybody looking sus)
 

PsychoSoldier

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I could get behind this, hes been playing very jestery but wasnt the hero

Has he given us anything other than "towniest town"
Well he's not the hero so that takes away his cred. There's another PR he could be so I'm not jumping to "he's scum," but it takes away a lot of the credibility I was giving him.

When I said that makes me like them more, I was talking about Satsu
 

Foxxi

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I'd thought listo was hero too honestly, that was the tinfoil I'd mentioned... but wanted to leave him in my pool of suspects... if I'm right and lora and psycho are also both town - means we're increasingly likely to have a scum king that might have chopped there.

That said, I still think listo isn't someone we need to worry about.
 

llettuce

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Well he's not the hero so that takes away his cred. There's another PR he could be so I'm not jumping to "he's scum," but it takes away a lot of the credibility I was giving him.

When I said that makes me like them more, I was talking about Satsu
Oh i was getting behind being sus of listo lmao
 

Mazer

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Mazer, is there anyone that you trust or townread even in the slightest? It feels like you've consistently discredited people's reasons to townread others(like my read on Future), but have not given any people you trust yourself
As I said yesterday, I've struggled with town reading. You, of all people, also know how I feel about strong clears without strong data points.

But it's still a fair question.

Right now, Lora is probably top. And I can't get more than like 70-80.

I do actually think I get Listo now. 70.
 

Mazer

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Part of it is due to mtr. Apparently a lot of people were thinking listo could be hero.

Psych mentioned today about mtr's attitude. I didn't see that one, but apparently psych did (good catch in either scenario). I'm not sure how many other people would have speculated mtr.
 

Claws

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Part of it is due to mtr. Apparently a lot of people were thinking listo could be hero.

Psych mentioned today about mtr's attitude. I didn't see that one, but apparently psych did (good catch in either scenario). I'm not sure how many other people would have speculated mtr.
I mran i thought hero is the townist but i suppose there is another
 

Mazer

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I mran i thought hero is the townist but i suppose there is another
I mostly thought it was generic stuff. Like he sometimes posts with town, hell, etc.

But now I'm thinking it wasn't.

But I guess a lot of people were thinking like you.
 

llettuce

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I mostly thought it was generic stuff. Like he sometimes posts with town, hell, etc.

But now I'm thinking it wasn't.

But I guess a lot of people were thinking like you.
Im guessing because it was generic, but nothing else was going on? So they were like thats the gameplay
 

Mazer

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Im guessing because it was generic, but nothing else was going on? So they were like thats the gameplay
Apologies, but I'm not sure I'm understanding where you are at here. Probably just me misreading something.
 

llettuce

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Apologies, but I'm not sure I'm understanding where you are at here. Probably just me misreading something.
What claws said, but yeah I think most assumed it was gimmick, but then when that was the only content, everyone went oh that must actually mean something (aka hero)
 

Mazer

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The funny thing is I guess I don't think that anymore.

Constantly raging at windmills, I am.
 

Mazer

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Time for an MTR deep dive. This is the kill that most intrigues because he was theoretically on nightingale's chopping block, potential miskill and he got killed.
Your King has gone over the entire thread again, and while many of my feelings are light, I must see to it that they are shared, so that the Kings to follow may have a reliable well of knowledge to draw from when making decisions in the future.

I am cautiously townreading Tildey. I think her participation is greater than anything I've seen from her this early as scum, and while her initial reads put a lot of focus on finding the Kingmaker, I think they were thorough and less likely to be openly postulated if she were evil. The caveat is that if she started with way more free time than normal, she may just be motivated to show she can dominate when she has the time. But I do not believe that to be the case and would rather take her at face value.

Also lightly townreading Listo. While he has only roleplayed so far, I think the quickness in which he changed perspectives when talking about revolting shows more freedom of mind than when he was belting out the same note for 3 days in the previous game. Obviously, we will need more, but it feels good so far.

Claws also seems towny. I think the way he's done a bit of solving, and how he both went at Blind for asking an awkward question and later still hung on to that as the most interesting thing that happened without actively attacking Blind...ehh, I feel Claws would normally use that as a point of attack as an assassin. Caveat is that sometimes when I townread Claws early he turns out to be evil, but I have the faith for now.

Lightest of light town on Future for similar reasons to the last game, but I don't feel as strongly about it. Would like to see a lot more.

I also agreed with Nightingale that llettuce would make a fine court jester, and I still agree, but her absolute drop-off since that time is a bit concerning. Like she had a fun intro and then disappeared which she is more prone to do as scum in my experience.

I talked about Satsu already and I also feel ok about Val, but these are just Royal flights of fancy, nothing strong.

Blind Ninja seems...ok? I'm sort of reserving judgment because he's one of the best at faking content without seeming too far off from his town meta. I kinda like that he immediately questioned Future's intention and overall I want to say the way he's tried to get more out of me and pressure my presence is something more likely to come from town? I'd keep an open mind here, but not the direction I'm looking in.

Mazer and Nightingale...I think there might be scum between the two. Mazer bothered me for reasons that both Tildey and Claws took out of my mouth. Feels like he's talking the talk but not really walking the walk. The first post where he talks about observing my process, it just feels like lip service to give the illusion of participation but leaving the winds open for the other town players to interpret positively or negatively and follow those winds. I will say I kinda like him asking if I would force people to cooperate, and the question about Satsu is ok? I think the directed inquisitiveness could be a good sign, but it's also totally possible he's doing the thing where he's just bringing up a name and hoping the crowd will do the shading for him.

To be honest, though, I'm more worried about Nightingale. Her intro was even more filler-y. I kind of liked her coming to a read on llettuce, but I didn't really get why she liked Mazer more than Claws or Blind considering I feel he was, at best, completely neutral by that point? At least for anyone who knows Mazer as well as we do. I don't really feel like the post she is townreading Tildey for makes much sense as it's a completely NAI assessment of Val's player archetype that either alignment could make. Which is why I'm questioning her on that right now. It feels more like Nightingale is saying things to look towny/productive rather than actually having curiosity, which is a bad sign for her.

Jarrod, LDG, Lora, and MTR are all rand for me right now, with MTR seeming maybe evil from soft meta vibes that I could not quite substantiate.
Mtr is rand, but not completely. Day 1 though. Maybe something. Could quite possibly be nothing

So my shot will likely land in those 4 or one of Mazer and Nightingale. Unless someone has a convincing reason to execute one of my townleans.
Hey Pyscho, I expect you to make the right choice, so I would like for you to kill MTR anyways
day 1 mtr, etc etc
and yet i have never taken the whole house down before and i tend to always go for mtr first

He doesn’t count MTR because he’s always trying to help on that one. :lol:
Day 1 standard mtr tripe. Claws does love him some mtr
well i cant just go after the ladys first thats not very gentlemanly like so its goes MTR >future >diva then you
claws on mtr early

Im actually with bn that blasting sum1 vocal early is gunna make this a boring game specially with what we have to go off of for today.

Psycho had me at mtr tho
Still, but in fairness, this is not uncommon for claws early
LDG is completely rand and so is Lora, but I also would like to see if Lora ends up king. I feel dece about Future.

So I probably shoot MTR or Jarrod.
mtr or jarrod. Did end up going Jarrod. In fairness to both reads, not sure Psych could have been reading too strong at this point.
I guess so. I'm not against shooting LDG full stop, but MTR's tone already gives me scum MTR-ish vibes and Jarrod's plea about not understanding the setup feels kind of fake since last time he played this he immediately jumped into roleplaying and playing up the king kill mechanic. Whereas I didn't initially feel anything about the RNG comment and feel completely neutral on her.

Blind, is your preference LDG here? That's what I get from your suggestion.

How about you, Claws? How do you feel about MTR vs. Jarrod? I know clock's ticking

Part of me wants to townread MTR for the "meta read" on llettuce, but not for any good or concrete reason. I guess maybe because I'd expect him to try and force a little more of a detailed explanation? But eh, that's probably not in his meta regardless of alignment this early. It felt ok in the gut though.
This is all kinda fair . And I don want to acknowledge that Psych pretty much always gives you the most material. He is why I stopped doing word usage penalties as a scum ability.
Future looking townier today

The basic part of me thinks Tildey's death implicates MTR.

I can't fault your logic on that but I had not part in Tildey's death. Actually bummed over losing the observer.

Why does future look townier?

Honestly, I got a slight negative from the first few posts.
Psych with mtr over future when it's starting to get another read for many of us. Would he have had a reason at this point? Is it possible he was still starting to look at that option.
Vote: MTR

I wanna start here

Not a very good start. Barking up the wrong tree.

Any other reasons you can think of for Tildey's death?

@MTR

Same question

I feel like Lora for some of the same reasons you mentioned earlier that he didn't really take advantage of being king to take out a strong threat.

Future is feeling more and more town.

I would also say I trust Mazer at this point as well.

not sure what to think of claws or listo. val is probably town but could be a lurking scum.

Why do you trust me?


From multiple people, the king taking out a strong threat argument befuddles me.

Does anyone else see my point on the type of kills scum would make or am I taking crazy pills?

There's several back and forths here, and I'm not sure mtr is all the way established. Psych had some pressure. I was interested vetting. The important thing I think within this exchange is his POE. mtr obviously wouldn't be thinking "hero" like everyone else. If scum was trying to find one, are they like Psych and think he's the next biggest claimer? Is psych telling them that?

There's a possibility I'm reading listo wrong, and if he did flip, I think there's some significance here.

MTR would be on my shooting range but his reads are kind of solid arent they?
Luckyly I dont have to make that kind of decsion today.

Ehhh, Tildey was getting no suspicion and came out the gate strong. If they're avoiding killing the main heavy hitters, it's a good kill to do in general. Tildey's death isn't really the reason I'm voting MTR, but I definitely don't think her dying on N2 makes it any less likely.

I slightly lean town on mtr, even though we disagree on our future leans.

I actually dont like mtr and think his tildey d2 bit was openly wolfing

i like val he seems like a cool guy
i answered some of this earlyier your not terrible
the fox is ok for meow
mazer is agendy still dont really like him
satsu idk i dont read him well
lora is an idiot
mtr probably scum
future idk why he has such a hardon for me like give it a rest
lettus is poor iso
Listo is the towniest supposably ? probably scum?
if i missed any1 else idk im just not really focusing on ppl not playing
There is some calling out with mtr here. Claws is on the shot list. I'd ask Satsu about his reads, and reluctance to give reasons. But we all know he's not going to answer me or anyone else while I'm alive.
I am considering a pool of: lettuce, claws, satsu. I will hear arguments for: MTR, listo

First the people I do not want to chop:

Mazer: I got a read of mazer early D1 that I have yet to see any reason to think is incorrect, which admittedly was bolstered by being sus of psycho and feeling like the two of them have not interacted in a way that is partnered - but even reconsidering my feelings about psycho, I think his play since then leans him town regardless.

Future: I touched on this already, but I feel like his play here has been more relaxed than I've seen in his previous scum games. He has offered thoughts and not avoided answering questions, though if claws is town I may have to reconsider him.

Psycho: I feel a bit better about psycho today - some of that comes from re-reading D1. I am still pinged by his focus on me objecting to the "vocal" bit and ignoring me pointing out I didn't mean it in terms of actual post count - saying he town read me when I had less content... but here I gave parts of my thoughts without going overboard and he thinks that's more scummy than nothing? I dunno. It still feels like trying to find an excuse to scum read me.... but I did like that we came to the same conclusion on lettuce and Tildey l... It has also helped that a lot of his reads and thoughts today have lined up with my own. His comments on future and lora particularly felt like mind-melds that made me feel better about him. I do share his tinfoil about himself/mazer/myself all being alive - which does give me pause, especially with the kills so far being... not necessarily odd? But neither stands out to me as "oh yeah, that person was a priority to get rid of" whereas we three as town are generally wanted dead by scum no matter what we've said/done yet....though it's possible I suppose in a world where we are all three town, that the wolves could just fear we've all been too likely to be doc/watcher targets for that reason.

Val: I have a personal read on Val as town, but even besides that - I think his questioning me thinking LDG could be scum off only a few posts - regardless of the fact that wasn't fully why I was sus of her - isn't something he does as scum himself.

Lora: This one..... I still think lora is probably town? His actions and behavior aren't really AI - I can see him doing what he did as any alignment.... but I do think a scum lora maybe uses his reputation to shoot someone.... that's not LDG. The larger issue I have with lora is the numbers game here. If we don't start getting wolves and he lives to become king again, that may not end well for us... but not something I am going to worry about today.



I may be swayed to consider these:



MTR: I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other for MTR. He's been here but everything around him is just kinda grey fuzzy in my mind. The thing that stands out the most to me about him is that he has continued to hold his town read of lettuce despite not having any real argument for why.

Listo: I almost feel like his I'm so town so so so town schtick is twtbaw? But seeing how future *just* did that, nearly getting yeeted for it himself as he pointed out - and then pivoted to being town read off it... gives me tinfoil.



The people I am considering:



Lettuce: I still think lettuce's intro was towny. I struggle to see a scum agenda that is like "I wanna fake claim something immediately!" -- that seems like it would draw a lot of unnecessary attention and ultimately not end well....but I suppose since she didn't *actually* do that and only said she wanted to... maybe that doesn't mean as much as I initially thought. Popping in at start of day just to say gee shucks we've only killed town doesn't give me happy feelings. I want to think her showing up to interact some is a good look, but I hesitate because I remember I had that feeling last game - that her spurt of posts analyzing the write up was towny, and it turned out I was wrong... so I dunno how much credit I should give to that.

Claws: I didn't hate anything about his D1 or D2 - which is suspect in itself for claws... and then today the "anyone but me" vibes he gave off do not make me feel great about him - nor does how he asked people to weigh in on me vs psycho - when he has said he is fine with both of us? He said he didn't want to yeet psycho and then later that I seem fine.. which.. I'm not sure if that's just him trying to not piss me off since I can axe him or what - but it feels weird. The one thing I see in his favor is that I think maybe a scum claws tries to push a king psycho *into* chopping me? seeing me gone D1 I think would delight him... especially if psycho is town and would end up being the one taking the heat for that.

Satsu: My initial read of satsu was based off being sus of psycho and hating how he decided to not even consider Satsu since I wanted to... which does lose some weight if psycho isn't scum... Satsu's responses to questions have been ~fine....But I am still pinged by him - notably that his participation feels like it has been limited to what has been pulled out of him. He never posts a whole lot, but there's usually at least a bit more that he offers up without someone having to prod him with a stick.
Foxxi does swing back and forth to mtr. I'm not sure that she actually seems like she's more on him then anyone else yet,
So llettuce, mtr, claws, and me are all pretty legitimate shots then?

Any reason other than citing you?

I am not a wise shot to take.

I am not quite sure why people are after listo. Nothing is really screaming one way or the other for me and more neutral on him.
In retrospect, could this post have put people on him?
I made a post where I said why i think toy lean town, Val because I can read Val in some way and i think I have him as TPR. FH is a tone read, dont know where else to look but is just like town FH from last game not scummy at all.

I don't want to talk about my feeling toward Listo at the moment.

Rest of my PoE: Claws Lettuce Mazer MTR is because I have a town read on other players. Those are valid kills for today. There are 2 scum in there.

I will tell you an updated list tommorow.
In fairness, Satsu showed some restraint on Listo. Of course, so did Psych. And other people. it's not like this was an uncommon tact. I also enjoy that there is no rationale here, and that he was off on mtr, but this only increased his confidence to his new short list having 3 scum.

This POE is worth holding onto for later.

Like Don't ignore this if I go.

I don't fucking know right now. I hate claws today, but maybe that makes him actually town, satsu seems off, but the only person trying to even sort of defend satsu is psycho - so unless psycho is a wolf with him that means theoretical wolf satsu has teammates that aren't bothering to try to save him? Lettuce seems town, but I don't fully trust that read after the last game either? But then...I kinda feel like there would be more opinions of who to pick of the three if any of them are wolves... but if *none* of them are.... then who the fuck is?



Maybe I just shoot MTR/listo?
Now it narrows to the hero and those a lot of people were thinking. I missed it, but this worries me.

I wouldn't hate you for an MTR shot. Part of me wants to buy the "I'm not the right choice" stuff, but off memory I don't think he's given any kind of takes or anything this phase.

I'd rather wait until tomorrow for Listo, so unless you feel sure about it, I don't think that's the right call.
Mtr and Listo. Psych,
Not completely sure if Night would kill MTR while actively trying to theorize against him?

Damn, that means MTR would have been the optimal shot yesterday. Maybe that's why he wasn't really solving much because he kinda wanted to get shot
I think this shows Psych may have been at least considering mtr as interesting to psych.
I think Satsu and I were both thinking Listo might be the hero, so that only makes me feel better there considering MTR was the kill
Obviously, this is only relevant in a world where Listo is town.

In fairness, if he is it's pretty relevant.
 

Foxxi

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I really don't think this is a scum listo - I don't think he plays intentionally in a way that he knows is likely to get him chopped.
 

Mazer

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I really don't think this is a scum listo - I don't think he plays intentionally in a way that he knows is likely to get him chopped.

So, we've got a decent amount of people confirmed as being suspicious of listo being the hero. Odds are at least one person on scum started thinking that.

And there's a lot of talk of killing mtr When you and psych both talk about killing him, you don't get a lot of pushback. He's a good target for someone to try to get a kill on, be it a scum king wanting a justifiable kill or inducing someone to make a bad kill.


Going for mtr over listo, I'm guessing that someone either didn't think listo was read correctly, or they had a different worry.
 

PsychoSoldier

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@PsychoSoldier

How do you feel about Listo now?

@Nightingale

Also curious about your read.
I still kinda think his schtick is because he's PR, just not the one I thought it was

I'll try to go over your MTR stuff tomorrow, but I also want to look for myself. I also want to look back at your posts

@Listo95 I get you believe you're the towniest town, but can you share thoughts on who the least towny is?
 

Mazer

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I still kinda think his schtick is because he's PR, just not the one I thought it was

I'll try to go over your MTR stuff tomorrow, but I also want to look for myself. I also want to look back at your posts

@Listo95 I get you believe you're the towniest town, but can you share thoughts on who the least towny is?

Please do. It's pretty bad the number of people avoiding.
 

Listo95

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1. Claws - gut says slight scum
3. Listo - towniest town to town
4. Lora - Lora
5. Llettuce - null
6. Mazer - slight town
8. Nightingale - slight scum
9. Psycho666Soldier - slight town
10. Satsu - null
11. Val the Moofia Boss - slight town
 

Claws

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Listo - boring
Lora -bs lora shit
Lettuce - nnnnothing
Mazer - Headache
Nightingale - Headache
Psycho - Headache
Satsu - also boring
Val - alpha kingus
claws - Town

sum1 needs to take a shot at 1 of 3 headaches they are playin off each other way to much and theres gotta be scum if not all 3 of them but no1 is being bold
 

Satsu

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I still kinda think his schtick is because he's PR, just not the one I thought it was
Yeah I see it. I got it backwards. Could explain his playstyle if he cant get to a fun part.
There is an easy way for him to get out of my poe if he wanted to.

Vote: Nightingale
 

VoidKitten

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Day 4 Vote Count:

Mazer - 1 (Psycho #616)
Lora - 1 (Val #635)
Nightingale - 1 (Satsu #638)

Not Voting: Claws, Listo, Lora, Llettuce, Mazer, Nightingale

It is now Day 4. Day 3 will end at 12:00pm ET on Dec Jan 7th or when the King chooses to execute. If the King does not execute by the end of the day, the King will die.
 

Lora

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I'm resuming my vote on Lora, though I'll execute whoever winds up having the most votes.

Vote: Lora
go for it. i dare you to execute me you fucking coward. you wont. put us into lylo right now you fucking coward. no balls.
 

Lora

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Nick Offerman Laughing GIF
 

llettuce

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Listo - boring
Lora -bs lora shit
Lettuce - nnnnothing
Mazer - Headache
Nightingale - Headache
Psycho - Headache
Satsu - also boring
Val - alpha kingus
claws - Town

sum1 needs to take a shot at 1 of 3 headaches they are playin off each other way to much and theres gotta be scum if not all 3 of them but no1 is being bold
aside from the fact that i am nothing with 4 ns I agree with the final take
 

Foxxi

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Listo - boring
Lora -bs lora shit
Lettuce - nnnnothing
Mazer - Headache
Nightingale - Headache
Psycho - Headache
Satsu - also boring
Val - alpha kingus
claws - Town

sum1 needs to take a shot at 1 of 3 headaches they are playin off each other way to much and theres gotta be scum if not all 3 of them but no1 is being bold
What even is this? Yesterday you liked psycho, and thought I was fine while I had the axe, and now we're both headaches?
 

Claws

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What even is this? Yesterday you liked psycho, and thought I was fine while I had the axe, and now we're both headaches?
all 3 of you have been very centred on each other and playing with each other but no1 is taking shots you get king and look the other way psycho sus'd you d1 and looked the other way but then you guys come back to each other its professional scum theatre and im not buying into it
 

Claws

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even mazer has been doing the dance idk the only ppl i like is listo and val atm and and friggin listo is voting for me. will lettuce actually come back with answers i think every1 should be looking into the 3 headaches
 

llettuce

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out of the 3 headaches who would you vote and why
Scum order: Mazer, Foxxi, Psych

I think its the substance thing for me on mazer, hes also been really into probability which for some reason rubs me the wrong way
Foxxi just feels a little off
Psych i think im ok with, but yeah this could all be theatre

Im also now slightly sus of claws but not like too much
 

llettuce

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even mazer has been doing the dance idk the only ppl i like is listo and val atm and and friggin listo is voting for me. will lettuce actually come back with answers i think every1 should be looking into the 3 headaches
Sorry I took so long, I read all of their stuff and also had to order lunch
 

Claws

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oh and same to you claws
probably also mazer due to i believed d1 he was very agendy and i havent lost that feeling also he is he just rubs me the wrong way more so then the other 2 i think my 2nd would then be night as she has been spratic and thats not her playstyle usually its more IDC what you guys think i know im right and shes more confident granted this isnt mafia
Psycho would be third as i have previously town leaned him and want to believe out of the 3 he is the townyest one but if they are all doing scum theatre off each other they all could be scum
 

PsychoSoldier

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Time for an MTR deep dive. This is the kill that most intrigues because he was theoretically on nightingale's chopping block, potential miskill and he got killed.

Mtr is rand, but not completely. Day 1 though. Maybe something. Could quite possibly be nothing



day 1 mtr, etc etc



Day 1 standard mtr tripe. Claws does love him some mtr

claws on mtr early


Still, but in fairness, this is not uncommon for claws early

mtr or jarrod. Did end up going Jarrod. In fairness to both reads, not sure Psych could have been reading too strong at this point.





This is all kinda fair . And I don want to acknowledge that Psych pretty much always gives you the most material. He is why I stopped doing word usage penalties as a scum ability.





Psych with mtr over future when it's starting to get another read for many of us. Would he have had a reason at this point? Is it possible he was still starting to look at that option.










There's several back and forths here, and I'm not sure mtr is all the way established. Psych had some pressure. I was interested vetting. The important thing I think within this exchange is his POE. mtr obviously wouldn't be thinking "hero" like everyone else. If scum was trying to find one, are they like Psych and think he's the next biggest claimer? Is psych telling them that?

There's a possibility I'm reading listo wrong, and if he did flip, I think there's some significance here.










There is some calling out with mtr here. Claws is on the shot list. I'd ask Satsu about his reads, and reluctance to give reasons. But we all know he's not going to answer me or anyone else while I'm alive.

Foxxi does swing back and forth to mtr. I'm not sure that she actually seems like she's more on him then anyone else yet,



In retrospect, could this post have put people on him?

In fairness, Satsu showed some restraint on Listo. Of course, so did Psych. And other people. it's not like this was an uncommon tact. I also enjoy that there is no rationale here, and that he was off on mtr, but this only increased his confidence to his new short list having 3 scum.

This POE is worth holding onto for later.

Like Don't ignore this if I go.


Now it narrows to the hero and those a lot of people were thinking. I missed it, but this worries me.


Mtr and Listo. Psych,



I think this shows Psych may have been at least considering mtr as interesting to psych.

Obviously, this is only relevant in a world where Listo is town.

In fairness, if he is it's pretty relevant.
Maze, what conclusions do you get from this? I feel there are some theories thrown out, but no concrete "This makes me feel good/worse about X."
 

PsychoSoldier

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Satsu
Lora
llettuce

Listo
Val

Claws
Mazer/Nightingale

Ok, I think the kills this game have been very calculated. I think scum have specifically kept me/Mazer/Nightingale alive to Spider-Man point, but the fact none of us are dead makes me think it is because one of us IS scum. And I've seen enough red flags from both of them to think they're both clean.

I still want to reread Mazer, but I want to reiterate that a lot of his content, off memory, has been consistently discrediting others' reasons for townreading underwhelming slots. Future being a prime example, and considering I'm townreading Satsu, his track record isn't really helping my perception. His takes on MTR seem inordinately focused on me and it comes off like he's been waiting for the right chance to start actively suspecting me. The flip side is that some of his solving today seems more involved than some might expect, but he's also at the point where he kind of has to in order to avoid accusations of floating or stirring the pot.

Nightingale's takes today make me feel like they are more likely to come from town? But I also can't help but feel like she ended up coming up with an excuse to shoot someone kinda random. The way she was at Claws/llettuce/Satsu, to then talking about MTR and Listo, to then Lora and Future, to quickly honing in on future with a couple justification posts and then the shot. Not 100% sure what motivation she has as scum to avoid some of the previous names, but I also can't shake the feeling that she felt a need to justify the shot on Future rather than it being actual solving. Her patterns of posting are a bit harder to reconcile as scum, so if theres town between her and Mazer, I think I'm at the point of thinking it's her. But we need to be careful of clearing one after killing the other if that happens.

I don't feel like Claws has investment in actually solving his reads. D1 was his most solvey, and past that, it's been a lot of reactionary takes that he doesn't even hold onto. The fact he today is just calling Me/Mazer/Night headaches and is focusing on solving in there feels like scum trying to stir that pot. If that is the case, it's probably only one of us in that 3 which is scum which is why he'd have the confidence to do so, while also getting some distance points from whoever is the scum there. Just can't really see claws as actually caring about who gets killed or having any personal reads he believes in, when I feel he usually has like one or two pet reads that he clings to from early on. I'm not seeing that here, instead just vague gesturing towards the trimuvirate of top posters.

I just think Satsu is town. For all the things I've said in previous phases, the fact MTR was killed over Listo or Val, and the fact that I feel we've been very much on the same page the last couple phases. I think he's been a scapegoat scum has been preying upon.

Lora is Lora, but I also still think his stance on people shading him is more likely to come from a town Lora who believes his shit rather than scum with an excuse.

llettuce could be scum and I hesitate to go too hard to defend her...but I think her general presence the last couple phases has just been a bit too prominent and varied for her scum meta. She can fake some content, but usually only when prompted, and even then I think it usually scrapes the bare minimum barrel and instead focuses on shitposting. I don't think we're getting much of that here, and while some might argue she's still only scraping the minimum, it just...feels different?

If all scum are not in Mazer/Night/Claws, I think one of Val or Listo could have scum. I originally thought Val was kingmaker, but that clearly wasn't the case. And with Listo actually playing like a Pr and doing himself no favors to stay alive...he's the one I'd trust to actually be PR between the two. I also struggle to see my bottom three all being scum, so...if I'm right about PR guesses, Val could be the baddie here.

So yeah, I think Claws and one of Mazer/Nightingale is likely to contain 2 scum. If the 3rd isn't found in that pile, I'd look between Val, llettuce, and Lora, probably in that order.
 

Claws

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what you mean by I don't feel like Claws has investment in actually solving his reads i explained my reads
 

Claws

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ill be frank im not gunna post a huge essay style post just to look towny that has never been claws and it never will be
 

PsychoSoldier

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ill be frank im not gunna post a huge essay style post just to look towny that has never been claws and it never will be
I don't expect a huge essay style post, that's fine. But your list earlier had zero reads other than considering me/Mazer/Night a headache that needs to be solved. While that's valid, it didn't really feel like you had an interest in solving anyone else and just wanted to further the narrative about scum being within us 3. Between that and D1, I don't remember you ever really giving any reads or calling for anyone to get scum, and hardly any townreads. In my experience, Town!Claws usually has one or two reads that they're constantly discussing and pushing for over the course of a few days.

Your explanations after the fact are fine and at least show you not just blindly saying there's a suspect in one of us, but that came after being needled about it.

I can't see myself being wrong on you, especially if both Mazer and Night are scum, but when you've spent so much time between now and the beginning of the game just kind of floating with no pronounced worldview, it doesn't make me jump to calling you town.

So do you think all 3 scum are me, Mazer, and Nightingale? You prefer Mazer first, but if he's scum, who are the next two people you look at?
 

Foxxi

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all 3 of you have been very centred on each other and playing with each other but no1 is taking shots you get king and look the other way psycho sus'd you d1 and looked the other way but then you guys come back to each other its professional scum theatre and im not buying into it
I don't think I've been centered on them at all. I've given my opinions of them both, and engaged with them, but I've not ignored the rest of the game by any means.

Ngl this gives me tinfoil....makes me feel like it was planned.... if we three are all town leaving us all alive so we yeet each other off a cliff at end game in paranoia feels like a very claws move. And considering I still don't think either of psycho or Mazer are wolves...

Vote: Claws
 

VoidKitten

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Day 4 Vote Count:

Mazer - 3 (Psycho #616, Lettuce #652, Claws #655)
Claws - 2 (Listo #645, Nightingale #665)
Lora - 1 (Val #635)
Nightingale - 1 (Satsu #638)

Not Voting: Lora, Mazer

It is now Day 4. Day 4 will end at 12:00pm ET on Dec Jan 7th or when the King chooses to execute. If the King does not execute by the end of the day, the King will die.
 

Mazer

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all 3 of you have been very centred on each other and playing with each other but no1 is taking shots you get king and look the other way psycho sus'd you d1 and looked the other way but then you guys come back to each other its professional scum theatre and im not buying into it
I've been on satsu. I have challenged on future (albeit incorrectly). Last phase I literally made sure everyone had been questioned by someone, and if they weren't or I wasn't satisfied I kept going.

I can see where that might be a headache, but why would I ignore 2 kings who are dangerous players with content.

Feels less organic here
 

Mazer

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Scum order: Mazer, Foxxi, Psych

I think its the substance thing for me on mazer, hes also been really into probability which for some reason rubs me the wrong way
Foxxi just feels a little off
Psych i think im ok with, but yeah this could all be theatre

Im also now slightly sus of claws but not like too much
I always think of probabilities, and everyone has seen me talk about what percentages I'm comfortable shooting at
 

Mazer

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Vote: Mazer
I have no idea what any of this means.

Vote: Mazer
I think you're usually supposed to spread these votes more than 10 minutes apart.

Are you working with psych or hoping to work off his vote?

Claws, I know I'm bringing up Psych but he was the first vote on me.

It's interesting to me that you came in with a general statement and then llettuce came in with a forced reason. Probabilities was a bad call for a forced rationalization for me.
 

Mazer

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I must have the vk.quote saved from my other search.


But it was one of his best
 

Mazer

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Maze, what conclusions do you get from this? I feel there are some theories thrown out, but no concrete "This makes me feel good/worse about X."
I kind of wanted to see what people would respond to.

I came out of it particularly wondering about you-as I've spelled out, claws and satsu mostly.

In fairness, I'm still thinking at least one might be badly calibrated town.
 

Mazer

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Satsu
Lora
llettuce

Listo
Val

Claws
Mazer/Nightingale

Ok, I think the kills this game have been very calculated. I think scum have specifically kept me/Mazer/Nightingale alive to Spider-Man point, but the fact none of us are dead makes me think it is because one of us IS scum. And I've seen enough red flags from both of them to think they're both clean.

I still want to reread Mazer, but I want to reiterate that a lot of his content, off memory, has been consistently discrediting others' reasons for townreading underwhelming slots. Future being a prime example, and considering I'm townreading Satsu, his track record isn't really helping my perception. His takes on MTR seem inordinately focused on me and it comes off like he's been waiting for the right chance to start actively suspecting me. The flip side is that some of his solving today seems more involved than some might expect, but he's also at the point where he kind of has to in order to avoid accusations of floating or stirring the pot.

Nightingale's takes today make me feel like they are more likely to come from town? But I also can't help but feel like she ended up coming up with an excuse to shoot someone kinda random. The way she was at Claws/llettuce/Satsu, to then talking about MTR and Listo, to then Lora and Future, to quickly honing in on future with a couple justification posts and then the shot. Not 100% sure what motivation she has as scum to avoid some of the previous names, but I also can't shake the feeling that she felt a need to justify the shot on Future rather than it being actual solving. Her patterns of posting are a bit harder to reconcile as scum, so if theres town between her and Mazer, I think I'm at the point of thinking it's her. But we need to be careful of clearing one after killing the other if that happens.

I don't feel like Claws has investment in actually solving his reads. D1 was his most solvey, and past that, it's been a lot of reactionary takes that he doesn't even hold onto. The fact he today is just calling Me/Mazer/Night headaches and is focusing on solving in there feels like scum trying to stir that pot. If that is the case, it's probably only one of us in that 3 which is scum which is why he'd have the confidence to do so, while also getting some distance points from whoever is the scum there. Just can't really see claws as actually caring about who gets killed or having any personal reads he believes in, when I feel he usually has like one or two pet reads that he clings to from early on. I'm not seeing that here, instead just vague gesturing towards the trimuvirate of top posters.

I just think Satsu is town. For all the things I've said in previous phases, the fact MTR was killed over Listo or Val, and the fact that I feel we've been very much on the same page the last couple phases. I think he's been a scapegoat scum has been preying upon.

Lora is Lora, but I also still think his stance on people shading him is more likely to come from a town Lora who believes his shit rather than scum with an excuse.

llettuce could be scum and I hesitate to go too hard to defend her...but I think her general presence the last couple phases has just been a bit too prominent and varied for her scum meta. She can fake some content, but usually only when prompted, and even then I think it usually scrapes the bare minimum barrel and instead focuses on shitposting. I don't think we're getting much of that here, and while some might argue she's still only scraping the minimum, it just...feels different?

If all scum are not in Mazer/Night/Claws, I think one of Val or Listo could have scum. I originally thought Val was kingmaker, but that clearly wasn't the case. And with Listo actually playing like a Pr and doing himself no favors to stay alive...he's the one I'd trust to actually be PR between the two. I also struggle to see my bottom three all being scum, so...if I'm right about PR guesses, Val could be the baddie here.

So yeah, I think Claws and one of Mazer/Nightingale is likely to contain 2 scum. If the 3rd isn't found in that pile, I'd look between Val, llettuce, and Lora, probably in that order.
If you see me green, does that change your satsu read?
 

Mazer

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Right now, I could see psych there's at least as good a chance as he's scum.as town, based on what I have him elimination from.


But I also think llettuce and claws may have FINALLY overplayed their hand to try to get this through.

I actually maybe feel a little more confident about llettuce given timing and rationale. But I'm also good with claws.

Right now, I feel best about Lora and listo as town.

And I don't hate that Val has forced a vote, when he probably could have just slipped a kill through.
 

Mazer

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Right now the priorities for me are probably:

Llettuce
Claws

Psych
Satsu

Night
Val

Listo
Lora
 

VoidKitten

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Day 4 Vote Count:

Mazer - 3 (Psycho #616, Lettuce #652, Claws #655)
Claws - 3 (Listo #645, Nightingale #665, Mazer #675)
Lora -1 (Val #635)
Nightingale - 1 (Satsu #638)

Not Voting: Lora

It is now Day 4. Day 3 will end at 12:00pm ET on Dec Jan 7th or when the King chooses to execute. If the King does not execute by the end of the day, the King will die.
 

Mazer

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@llettuce

Your concern was that I was agendy and was talking about probabilities, etc. Let's say you were aware that this is my play style, and even people in this thread can speak to my stats background....does that make you hesitate?
 

Claws

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@Claws

What are your thoughts on llettuce? Like her rationale?
Shes pretty good still needs more but she managed to answer my question on you 3 i feel like we mind melded a bit goin after the "smart ppl" i wouldnt put her in firm town over it but its a start
 

Mazer

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Why vote me over lettuce in your case ?
Because I have you as very close to her in probability, and you and her brought me to 3 votes.

If she gets more, I'd swtich to her.



And Satsu is still out there.



Satsu is interesting, because if I'm right about either you or llettuce, his probabilities as town jump up significantly.
 

Claws

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Right now, I could see psych there's at least as good a chance as he's scum.as town, based on what I have him elimination from.


But I also think llettuce and claws may have FINALLY overplayed their hand to try to get this through.

I actually maybe feel a little more confident about llettuce given timing and rationale. But I'm also good with claws.

Right now, I feel best about Lora and listo as town.

And I don't hate that Val has forced a vote, when he probably could have just slipped a kill through.
Im actually surpised he didnt take it to rng.org and blast
 

Mazer

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Shes pretty good still needs more but she managed to answer my question on you 3 i feel like we mind melded a bit goin after the "smart ppl" i wouldnt put her in firm town over it but its a start
So, you've played with me a lot. Regardless of her agreeing with you, do you feel her reasons were sound?

It's true, you both do seem pretty mind-melded.
 

Claws

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So, you've played with me a lot. Regardless of her agreeing with you, do you feel her reasons were sound?

It's true, you both do seem pretty mind-melded.
Her reasons were pretty close to myself honestly til i see one of you flip im not gunna be happy
 

Claws

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Plus if you were more sure of lettuce why not advantatly push her instead of hopping pn my train
 

Mazer

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My concern with you is that you came in with me, a person who has not been king and doesn't have a bad kill to my name, and stated I have been agendy and focused on just foxxi and psych.

This pings because I actually did listen when Psych said I might be wrong about future replying as a force. I made sure that I had interactions with literally every other poster to see if I could pick something up. It really doesn't feel like I overfocused. It is fair that I've produced a lot of content, but that should give people specific things to find.

And then instantly llettuce came in with a reason that everyone who knows me knows is wrong, not but 10 minutes later.

And you and I were the only two picking up attention at that point.

Certainly you see my concern?
 

Claws

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Unfortunately i dont have scum chat so i cant set ppl up to post at a proper time and i may be working with psycho if he is indeed town
 

Mazer

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Plus if you were more sure of lettuce why not advantatly push her instead of hopping pn my train
Because I am still very comfortable with killing you. And it's not completely impossible that val would decide to do something different.

And because forcing people to actually get on record in a closer vote seems more helpful.


It's a very small preference. To be clear, given the way your exchange and follow-ups have gone I'm very ok with it. Honestly, as I think about it the only reservation might be that I've misread you a lot and feel bad about it.

But that's not an excuse to ignore good shots.
 

Claws

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I get the worry but i just dont see the logic that i purposely voted you 10mins apart with lettuce
 

Claws

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If you feel good killing me then you must be scum cuz i havent been king either
 

Mazer

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Unfortunately i dont have scum chat so i cant set ppl up to post at a proper time and i may be working with psycho if he is indeed town
Yes absolutely, because I should ignore tells. That close agenda post never happens and I should have ignored it and focused more on Psych and foxxi.
 

Mazer

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If you feel good killing me then you must be scum cuz i havent been king either
This is kind of a weird point, because you are good with killing me over Psych and Nightingale....and I haven't been king.

Are you saying I should only be concerned with killing people who haven't been king yet?


Because that seems like something interesting from you.
 

Claws

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This is kind of a weird point, because you are good with killing me over Psych and Nightingale....and I haven't been king.

Are you saying I should only be concerned with killing people who haven't been king yet?


Because that seems like something interesting from you.
Yes i was using your own logic here
 

Mazer

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I get the worry but i just dont see the logic that i purposely voted you 10mins apart with lettuce
I mean, it is a tell we've seen.


But I think you are ignoring my point based on my critiques about why you and llettuce singled me out.
 

Claws

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i wouldnt know who you should focus on king or non king i lack that info
 
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