Mafia 22: <Insert Title Here>

[MitchRapp]

A boob conisuer i see

Some would say a boob.

 

[Satsu]

Hey Mitch, would you vote VK with the hood or do you dislike Badger as much as me?

 

[MitchRapp]

I mean I would prefer Badger. If we think there is something to be gained elsewhere I will listen. If you are all absolutely convinced that you 3 are in the clear that means there is 2 left between Void, Badger and BN. If we lynch and are wrong I guess we know where to go but if he really is a role blocker for the town that would sting.

 

[Badger]

Wasting your time guys as CWE will not be avenged.

Warned enough so do what you will.

 

[Badger]

 

[Badger]

Yeah that’s right. His two still
beats four!

 

[Satsu]

Wasting your time guys as CWE will not be avenged.

If vk is telling the truth you didnt do it. Dont you want to vote vk instead? if he flips town it makes you look better.

 

[Claws]

Unvote:

 

[Claws]

ignore me i just dont want a hammer while im at work

 

[Satsu]

Ok if claws doesnt want vk hammered i dont want either. ignore what i said keep voting each other.

 

[WindwardAway]

I mean if we wanna yeet my 2 nieghbors im cool with it but im pretty sure scum is elseware

Even if one of you and Satsu is scum, if two town neighbors die today and tomorrow it's probably game over for us and I never bet on hoods being guaranteed to have scum. Seen setup fuckery enough times in neighborhoods that I am purely reading you guys off of what you write in the neighborhood and in the thread, I don't give a shit about hood probabilities. If people want to try to solve the neighborhood for themselves, that's fine.

 

[WindwardAway]

I mean I would prefer Badger. If we think there is something to be gained elsewhere I will listen. If you are all absolutely convinced that you 3 are in the clear that means there is 2 left between Void, Badger and BN. If we lynch and are wrong I guess we know where to go but if he really is a role blocker for the town that would sting.

Who of VK/BN do you think is more likely, then?

 

[Claws]

The problem i have with bn is hes not in here until ppl start bitching about it

 

[MitchRapp]

In a vacuum VK has been worse than Blind Ninja. A lot of my Blind Ninja distrust comes from before BN took over. I am still confused about the LDG claim etc.

VK has spun an elaborate tail. If I am picking between the two I would be suspicious because seems convenient that VK has role blocked only people who have no roles. Again I understand that it is a mostly vanilla game but that is difficult for me to wrap my head around. Then you throw in a completely safe neighborhood? Seems like a mafia blocker might help balance.

 

[MitchRapp]

Tale not tail.

 

[Claws]

The problem with vk and gives me pause is was there a rb in the rand before? Why have a rb in this game of mostly vts

 

[MitchRapp]

The problem with vk and gives me pause is was there a rb in the rand before? Why have a rb in this game of mostly vts

Are you, (and maybe a separate question the rest of the neighborhood) set on one of these two?

 

[Satsu]

Its like a doctor in a way. one has to guess who kill target is and and other who kill is.

 

[Satsu]

killer i mean.

 

[Claws]

Are you, (and maybe a separate question the rest of the neighborhood) set on one of these two?

Between vk and bn idk not really

 

[Claws]

Its like a doctor in a way. one has to guess who kill target is and and other who kill is.

I suppose but why add rb and not dr then

 

[Claws]

Seems redundant

 

[MitchRapp]

OKay so that leaves me, Badger and Matthieu out side of the neighborhood members.

 

[Claws]

Matt could fake motion aswell techniquely its also redundant and tbh its odd having these 2 redundant roles over cop/dr

 

[Satsu]

There doesnt seem to be a doctor so who would town get instead? Third neighbour?

 

[Claws]

There doesnt seem to be a doctor so who would town get instead? Third neighbour?

Why put a rb instead of dr in a game with nothing to block except a kill see redundant

 

[MitchRapp]

@Badger @Blind Ninja

What are your thoughts on Void?

 

[WindwardAway]

The problem with vk and gives me pause is was there a rb in the rand before? Why have a rb in this game of mostly vts

No there wasn't an RBer, that's why VK said he probably replaced the doctor cause they accomplish the same thing in a game with mostly vanillas or neighbors (who also don't have night actions). Doctor has to target the night kill, roleblocker has to target the killer. That's the only difference.

But the thing that's been gnawing at me, that I asked VK earlier, is why he mentioned roleblocker as a possible scum role more than once, when as town he should know there's no scum roleblocker. He said it was just for the sake of utility comparison that he said that so I'll go back and check, but it just came off as weird to me.

 

[WindwardAway]

The other thing is that VK kept saying it doesn't matter if he lives or dies today since he's not useful to town. Like yeah, I've been there and done that with a defeatist attitude when I think my own play has been dumb, but a town roleblocker has increasing utility the closer we are to LyLo, because the ratio of scum to town is at the maximum. So the chances of success if he has good reads are very high, especially if there's only scum left by then. I would expect him to be more fired up as town roleblocker thinking he can finally be of use.

 

[Badger]

It’s a bit of a tough one as there’s some roles maybe been changed and others have stayed the same. Wind’s got my fruit from last rand. I’m not sure if anyone had pineapple for example. We had a doc last time and now there’s not. Maybe the VTs are the same but the power roles and neighbours have changed.

50/50 on Void tbh. I mean he is coming across as solvy asking questions defending the MTR train but could also see that as a misdirect and possibly pocketing me yesterday too.

 

[WindwardAway]

It’s a bit of a tough one as there’s some roles maybe been changed and others have stayed the same. Wind’s got my fruit from last rand. I’m not sure if anyone had pineapple for example. We had a doc last time and now there’s not. Maybe the VTs are the same but the power roles and neighbours have changed.

50/50 on Void tbh. I mean he is coming across as solvy asking questions defending the MTR train but could also see that as a misdirect and possibly pocketing me yesterday too.

I think kiwi, orange, and jackfruit have also all gone unclaimed from last rand so some of the fruits definitely changed. But you were VT last rand and I'm a neighbor, so I think the flavors got reranded separately.

 

[Blind Ninja]

The problem i have with bn is hes not in here until ppl start bitching about it

Because i care more about RL and Wow then I do this game

Especially if the neighborhood is hell bent on not sussing each other.

 

[Blind Ninja]

In a vacuum VK has been worse than Blind Ninja. A lot of my Blind Ninja distrust comes from before BN took over. I am still confused about the LDG claim etc.

VK has spun an elaborate tail. If I am picking between the two I would be suspicious because seems convenient that VK has role blocked only people who have no roles. Again I understand that it is a mostly vanilla game but that is difficult for me to wrap my head around. Then you throw in a completely safe neighborhood? Seems like a mafia blocker might help balance.

My assumption about the LDG claim.

Her and MTR were scum together. MTR was feeling like shit. MTR likely said claim cop and guilty on me it should get you further in the game. LDG started with the cop claim. Game rerand. LDG still going with the cop claim on MTR without realizing or noticing the rerand. Got upset about peolpe not trusting her and asked to be replaced.

 

[Blind Ninja]

@Badger @Blind Ninja

What are your thoughts on Void?

I can see him as a potential scum. I dont have him in my trusted pile.

I still feel we solve the game between Mitch/Badger and one of the neighborhood.

 

[Blind Ninja]

The other thing is that VK kept saying it doesn't matter if he lives or dies today since he's not useful to town. Like yeah, I've been there and done that with a defeatist attitude when I think my own play has been dumb, but a town roleblocker has increasing utility the closer we are to LyLo, because the ratio of scum to town is at the maximum. So the chances of success if he has good reads are very high, especially if there's only scum left by then. I would expect him to be more fired up as town roleblocker thinking he can finally be of use.

I feel that attitude comes from your 3 unwillingness to sus each other. Im partly in the same boat. When there is a block that talks together but doesnt put those thoughts into the thread... it doesnt have all eyes and easy for a potential bad apple to hide. If all those thoughts were in thread, more eyes to look for potential slips and holes in logic.

 

[Claws]

Because i care more about RL and Wow then I do this game

Especially if the neighborhood is hell bent on not sussing each other.

i sus satsu every other sentance

 

[Blind Ninja]

i sus satsu every other sentance

In thread or neighbor chat?

Neither you, nor satsu did my little experiment of 3 reasons why you neighbors are town and 2 why they are scum. Unless I missed it.

 

[WindwardAway]

Because i care more about RL and Wow then I do this game

Especially if the neighborhood is hell bent on not sussing each other.

Yeah a lot of people I know are busy raiding now, can't blame you

 

[WindwardAway]

I feel that attitude comes from your 3 unwillingness to sus each other. Im partly in the same boat. When there is a block that talks together but doesnt put those thoughts into the thread... it doesnt have all eyes and easy for a potential bad apple to hide. If all those thoughts were in thread, more eyes to look for potential slips and holes in logic.

Yeah but I've summarized whatever I could in the thread, and I've also provided reasons to back my reads. I know it's not the same thing as being able to see the full hood chat but I feel like I've been relaying pretty much everything that could be paraphrased, short of quoting the chat directly. At the very least I've presented information as to why I believe my neighbors are town. We probably have as many messages in the hood as this entire thread does, everyone's been active and pitching in with their own thoughts at random times.

 

[WindwardAway]

In thread or neighbor chat?

Neither you, nor satsu did my little experiment of 3 reasons why you neighbors are town and 2 why they are scum. Unless I missed it.

Neither of them answered your question. I didn't remind them in the hood because at least Claws said (in the hood) that he still had to catch up on the thread last time he was here, so I thought eventually he'd see it.

 

[WindwardAway]

Claws does sus Satsu every other sentence in the hood chat btw

 

[WindwardAway]

Claws does sus Satsu every other sentence in the hood chat btw

Less often than actually every other sentence, but several times a day I think

 

[Claws]

In thread or neighbor chat?

Neither you, nor satsu did my little experiment of 3 reasons why you neighbors are town and 2 why they are scum. Unless I missed it.

both

 

[WindwardAway]

Anyway I'm still not willing to tinfoil. You want me to tinfoil, there had better be a very good reason for it. I am not ignoring arguments as to why some neighbor or another could be scum, but I don't feel like any of them so far have been more compelling to me than the reasons I've found Claws and Satsu to be towny.

 

[Claws]

these a big brain tinfoil that satsu and val came up with this plot to lynch val to secure my trust in the hood so he gets to end game

 

[WindwardAway]

I recently lost a town game because I spent the entire game defending the most consensus scumread player for 4 days until other townies talked me into paranoia reading him. I dropped my shield on him and misvoted in LyLo

I'm not repeating that mistake any time soon, I don't want to cave into paranoia just to find out I was right all along.

 

[Claws]

im all about paranoia

 

[Claws]

mostly the paranoia of foxxi reranding again

 

[Claws]

and ill never get outta this game

 

[WindwardAway]

im all about paranoia

Nowadays I don't even state my paranoia reads if I have them until LyLo because I figure if I can hold it in, maybe the players in question will just get killed lol

 

[Blind Ninja]

Yeah but I've summarized whatever I could in the thread, and I've also provided reasons to back my reads. I know it's not the same thing as being able to see the full hood chat but I feel like I've been relaying pretty much everything that could be paraphrased, short of quoting the chat directly. At the very least I've presented information as to why I believe my neighbors are town. We probably have as many messages in the hood as this entire thread does, everyone's been active and pitching in with their own thoughts at random times.

Paraphrasing could alter the message that was presented in chat. Its he number of eyes to disect whats being said by everyone there. Since you've all said an unwillingness to vote one another, I doubt you're reading into everything that is said with the same effort you'd do if it was said in thread and you werent neighbors.

 

[WindwardAway]

mostly the paranoia of foxxi reranding again

Yeah I don't really want another rerand, I'm gonna be pretty busy on weekends and for selfish reasons I'd rather just see this game to its end, or alternatively just die tonight so I don't have to overthink it

 

[WindwardAway]

Paraphrasing could alter the message that was presented in chat. Its he number of eyes to disect whats being said by everyone there. Since you've all said an unwillingness to vote one another, I doubt you're reading into everything that is said with the same effort you'd do if it was said in thread and you werent neighbors.

The level of trust in the neighborhood wasn't high until after Val's claim, and even still i don't think it was this high until after Val's flip, in particular

 

[WindwardAway]

At this point, I can't say that I don't see the arguments as to why Satsu could be scum with Val, based on what's been relayed here in the thread. But experiencing his reaction in realtime in the hood chat was a completely different matter. No, I don't know what his scum game looks like, but I think most or all players I know are incapable of reacting the way Satsu did in the hood, immediately after Val claimed in the thread. He just said something about it being his flavor, didn't even make a snap call on Val's alignment, and then sounded unsure of what to think of the claim.

 

[WindwardAway]

Also, gonna be honest, it's better this time around but in the last rand it never would've mattered what was relayed from hood chat to thread because there were almost no eyes looking at anything after I died, except for Claws who got frustrated at the lack of activity.

 

[WindwardAway]

Another towncase I can make on Claws and Satsu is that I don't think the tone of their posting has changed from previous rand. I don't think it's different in the hood, either. Take that as you will, but if either of them changed from town to scum, there's no obvious tonetell.

 

[WindwardAway]

What if VK/Matt is the team and they made a plan to semi-confirm VK's roleblocker claim?

If Matt is town motion detector it means he assumed that Satsu was scum bussing Val immediately after Val's flip, cause he claimed that he detected no motion last night on Satsu. I had assumed Satsu was a likely kill target. But this means town!Matt would have to think he was going to catch Satsu performing a kill last night, because obviously you don't need to motion detect Satsu if you think he's gonna die that night, you'll get a detection but your target will be dead so who cares.

Now if Matt is scum with VK, VK could say he plans to claim a roleblocker. Maybe he's scum roleblocker, maybe he's not a roleblocker at all. Claiming town roleblocker could possibly make a similar town role counterclaim if they exist, but more importantly, he can "confirm" that Matt detected motion on him on N1, so they soft confirm each other. VK hasn't roleblocked any kills, so we don't have mechanical proof that he is as he claims, other than matt claiming to motion detect him. And we don't have mechanical proof that Matt is a motion detector, other than VK saying he did go somewhere on N1. Matt claiming that Satsu didn't visit and wasn't visited does absolutely nothing to confirm him. They're only confirming each other, which is not at all a hard confirmation, and conveniently neither of them was being pushed yesterday or for a while today.

I'll listen to their defenses if they have any, and I also wanna hear everyone else's thoughts in case I missed something, but I think it's weird for them to confirm each other like that.

Vote: VoidKitten

 

[WindwardAway]

Did that make any sense? Or are you guys all raiding?

 

[WindwardAway]

Man, now that I got the gears turning again, I can't sleep cause I want to get a discussion going

 

[WindwardAway]

It just fits way too neatly as a team
Like I was going through individual reads and then association reads and realized there's nothing barring VK and Matt from being teamed, except that they're confirming each other, and then I realized that's the only thing confirming either of them

 

[WindwardAway]

It just fits way too neatly as a team
Like I was going through individual reads and then association reads and realized there's nothing barring VK and Matt from being teamed, except that they're confirming each other, and then I realized that's the only thing confirming either of them

Which is kinda wild because I wasn't even thinking about it an hour ago until I started reworking my readlist

 

[WindwardAway]

I feel like someone's gonna tell me it's a crackpot theory but it surfaced cause I decided to ask a question to hood chat on who they thought was towniest outside of the hood and then I listed my takes and started explaining

And as I was explaining I also started rating the likelihood of each pairing, and why I thought that way, and then it hit me this is actually really plausible

 

[WindwardAway]

I feel like someone's gonna tell me it's a crackpot theory but it surfaced cause I decided to ask a question to hood chat on who they thought was towniest outside of the hood and then I listed my takes and started explaining

And as I was explaining I also started rating the likelihood of each pairing, and why I thought that way, and then it hit me this is actually really plausible

Ftr the other neighbors aren't around so they haven't answered the question there but it probably got lost in my thought vomit so my bad

 

[WindwardAway]

I'm gonna try to go to sleep but I think every time i say this, I don't actually leave the thread cause I think of more that I wanna add

 

[WindwardAway]

What if VK/Matt is the team and they made a plan to semi-confirm VK's roleblocker claim?

If Matt is town motion detector it means he assumed that Satsu was scum bussing Val immediately after Val's flip, cause he claimed that he detected no motion last night on Satsu. I had assumed Satsu was a likely kill target. But this means town!Matt would have to think he was going to catch Satsu performing a kill last night, because obviously you don't need to motion detect Satsu if you think he's gonna die that night, you'll get a detection but your target will be dead so who cares.

Now if Matt is scum with VK, VK could say he plans to claim a roleblocker. Maybe he's scum roleblocker, maybe he's not a roleblocker at all. Claiming town roleblocker could possibly make a similar town role counterclaim if they exist, but more importantly, he can "confirm" that Matt detected motion on him on N1, so they soft confirm each other. VK hasn't roleblocked any kills, so we don't have mechanical proof that he is as he claims, other than matt claiming to motion detect him. And we don't have mechanical proof that Matt is a motion detector, other than VK saying he did go somewhere on N1. Matt claiming that Satsu didn't visit and wasn't visited does absolutely nothing to confirm him. They're only confirming each other, which is not at all a hard confirmation, and conveniently neither of them was being pushed yesterday or for a while today.

I'll listen to their defenses if they have any, and I also wanna hear everyone else's thoughts in case I missed something, but I think it's weird for them to confirm each other like that.

Vote: VoidKitten

Also when Matt claimed to get a motion detect on VK he said VK went somewhere, didn't he? He didn't say that VK could've been visited which can lead to the motion detect result too.

And despite that, and getting VK's claim that he went somewhere, Matt wasn't interested in voting VK.

 

[WindwardAway]

Also when Matt claimed to get a motion detect on VK he said VK went somewhere, didn't he? He didn't say that VK could've been visited which can lead to the motion detect result too.

And despite that, and getting VK's claim that he went somewhere, Matt wasn't interested in voting VK.

Like if you just look at Matt's claims he said VK went somewhere and Satsu didn't go anywhere. Which sounds like a tracker soft, not a motion detector.

But balance-wise, a tracker works almost the same as a cop here because they only get a red on a killing scum. And there wasn't a cop in the last rand, or any investigative for that matter, and if everyone is as they've claimed in this rand then yeah the only town that Matt could get a result on is a roleblocker which is coincidentally VK. Any other visiting role is scum doing a kill (or if they have a PR).

 

[WindwardAway]

Like if you just look at Matt's claims he said VK went somewhere and Satsu didn't go anywhere. Which sounds like a tracker soft, not a motion detector.

But balance-wise, a tracker works almost the same as a cop here because they only get a red on a killing scum. And there wasn't a cop in the last rand, or any investigative for that matter, and if everyone is as they've claimed in this rand then yeah the only town that Matt could get a result on is a roleblocker which is coincidentally VK. Any other visiting role is scum doing a kill (or if they have a PR).

Basically this is just, tracker is very unlikely in this setup so I don't believe matthieu is a tracker
I actually don't even remember him claiming motion detector, I think it was VK who said it? Or am I misremembering?

 

[WindwardAway]

If Matt is scum and isn't any kind of investigative, it's super easy to fake it on his partner since there haven't been any other investigative claims unless you count LDG, and BN has said he's not a cop and it must've been a relic gambit from the previous rand. So that leaves scum the option to fake claiming an investigative role, and if Matt thought he couldn't sell us on a tracker, he sold it as a motion detector instead.

 

[WindwardAway]

I mean that can be seen as being intentionally vague to leave the options open

 

[MitchRapp]

This game has grinded to a stop.

 

[WindwardAway]

Oh man, I really want post-game cred on this

 

[WindwardAway]

This game has grinded to a stop.

Hi, can I interest you in reading my solve? XD

 

[WindwardAway]

Hi, can I interest you in reading my solve? XD

Cause I want opinions, in case that wasn't clear

 

[WindwardAway]

Did mitch just leave after complaining the thread was dead lol

 

[WindwardAway]

Well, whatever, I guess I'll go back to trying to sleep
Don't hammer anyone while I'm gone, I still wanna gather everyone's thoughts and discuss things before we really need to end the day

 

[MitchRapp]

Did mitch just leave after complaining the thread was dead lol

Driving home. Tossing kids in the tub after soccer and then I'll attempt to go through it.

 

[MitchRapp]

I've retype my response about 5 times here.

Is it plausible yes.

 

[MitchRapp]

So another rerand everyone?

 

[Claws]

This game has grinded to a stop.

its raid time thats why

 

[Claws]

So another rerand everyone?

no thanks

 

[Claws]

heading to bed think we come to a desition tommorrow dont need this goin into next week out of both trains i think id lean badger unless hes magically gunna come back and do shit that isnt whining im not keen on goin the mitch train with the 2 ppl im most sus of currently

 

[WindwardAway]

So another rerand everyone?

I'm not doing another rerand just to have people go quiet 3 days in

 

[Badger]

heading to bed think we come to a desition tommorrow dont need this goin into next week out of both trains i think id lean badger unless hes magically gunna come back and do shit that isnt whining im not keen on goin the mitch train with the 2 ppl im most sus of currently

Fine.

Unvote: Mitch

Vote: Void

 

[Claws]

Fine.

Unvote: Mitch

Vote: Void

Spicy

 

[VoidKitten]

Vote: VoidKitten

glgl scum team. town deserves the loss.

 

[VoidKitten]

The fact i disappear and town lets scum choose me and you guys are tinfoiling it is funny.

:D

 

[VoidKitten]

still a roleblocker. will be a roleblocker. God I hope scum kicks everyones ass. scum deserved the win in the first game too

 

[VoidKitten]

In other news, squirrels burrowed through my wall last night because my landlord didn't feel like gettign rid of them months ago when we told him about it

 

[VoidKitten]

I still would have gone for Mitch, personally, if yall weren't losing your minds lmfao

 

[VoidKitten]

What if VK/Matt is the team and they made a plan to semi-confirm VK's roleblocker claim?

I probably would have answered his question on where I went during the day he claimed it and not the next day when I ISO'd him :D

Unless you think my brilliant plan involved me ignoring it, knowing the rest of the game would, and then casually answering it the next day.

 

[VoidKitten]

Need two more votes on me. Let's go and finish this day so this game can actually end.

 

[VoidKitten]

I would not be surprised if Foxxi re-rands the game in less than 2 hours.

 

[VoidKitten]

That would be 60 hour day. Which is 2 days + 12h. Foxxi re-randed the game at 3 days + 12h. (She said it was supposed to wait until 8:05 which was 84 hours at the point).

Foxxi also is a bastard so I wouldn't be surprised if each time it re-rands that timer for re-rand drops down :D

 

[Satsu]

Unvote:
Vote: VK

 

[VoidKitten]

Need one more.

 

[VoidKitten]

Finally can get this first misyeet done with.

 

[VoidKitten]

Technically second, but this one will actually count since it wasn't forced upon me like the other one :D

 

[VoidKitten]

@Claws @MitchRapp @Blind Ninja

Misyeet meeeeeeeee

 

[MitchRapp]

Badger flipping trains? Shocker.

 

[VoidKitten]

Remember to sleep tomorrow if you want best odds at finding the scum. Otherwise it’s mylo