Fingers of Suspicion

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Mafia 22: <Insert Title Here>

Badger

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And if it's not me Badger who is it?
If it’s not you then maybe Matt, BN or Void if this 3-way is indeed all town. Matt not wanting to vote Val is NAI but could be turning up his personality and acting jesterish to cover being voted for. BN I didn’t vote but feel he would’ve possibly pushed harder as scum. Void is very good at controlling the narrative as scum too but right now I don’t see it.
 

Blind Ninja

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@Blind Ninja When you took over for LDG, there was nothing in her chat about why she claimed cop right? I assume it would be in scum chat but want to ask.

Again, in the same vein of "why did val claim kiwi" I want to know why LDG, our player who doesn't make plans, decided to claim Cop and vehemently fight about it?

And then, continued it after the re-rand?

I see a world where she didn't know she re-randed, but I kinda feel like the new scum team would try and reign her in and make comments about it. And not have her randomly claim (if there was a new team shes on.)
I didnt get her chat. She was scum with MTR as told by our overlord

She was strawberry mafia.


I dont trust a neighborhood of 3. 1 has to be rotten.
 

VoidKitten

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Ah right, I forgot that's the standard format here lol
I was hoping maybe it would give us a clue as to why he claimed kiwi here but never mind
Matthieu is more likely to claim some random shit, imo.

Val will absolutely claim things before thinking and usually derp clears himself.

Like it's an art.
 

Badger

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If I was scum you’d be dead already because you’ve killed me like…loads lol
 

VoidKitten

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He once wrote like six paragraphs, in one post, explaining why I was scum, but legit forgot one important point that ruined his entire argument. And he was like "oh yeah i forgot. nevermind"

And that was that lmao.
 

VoidKitten

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I also may be slightly biased because I absolutely hated Mitch's post saying that we should all jump on Badger because I was annoyed and said I was leaving.

Acting like my voice is more important than the others who were solving so we should just end day.

Yeah, he was being sarcastic about me, but the vibe was meh.

I could also be conf biased because its so easy to find scummy things when you read with the intention to find them -.-
 

Blind Ninja

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You do, but you never act on it. You've owed me kills for awhile at this point, but you like to keep me alive because I interact.

Damn your morals :D
I did act on it recently, but you were doc'd and I was tracked like the same time or something.
 

Blind Ninja

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Also, what a shitshow to plow through... Too much wow. Raids open this week, so plenty of weekly content to do to prepare.
 

VoidKitten

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I am like so torn with allowing the neighbors to stay together :D

Because they seem pretty adamant about each others towniness and that means the one scum, whoever it is, has fooled the two others, all of whom are good analyzers in their own ways.

I just worry that if they decide to really put themselves into lylo, like they clearly have talked about (not planned, but its come up), it seems like it will be a mess lol.

That would be even better if two people were scum in that group (i dont think this is actually true, but the thought is so fun to think of)
 

WindwardAway

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My opinion on scum...

one of the 3 neighbors
and
mitch or badger
Ok, since you also mentioned the neighborhood, do you have any thoughts on who's most likely to be scum of us 3, at least based on our posts in the thread?

I still don't feel like I should tinfoil ä them right now, but I want some external opinions nonetheless. Regardless of whether we're all town or if someone's scum in the hood, I think particularly if it's a scumteam of 3 and 2 are still alive, we should be talking about this since it could later prove to be valuable depending on flips.
 

WindwardAway

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I am like so torn with allowing the neighbors to stay together :D

Because they seem pretty adamant about each others towniness and that means the one scum, whoever it is, has fooled the two others, all of whom are good analyzers in their own ways.

I just worry that if they decide to really put themselves into lylo, like they clearly have talked about (not planned, but its come up), it seems like it will be a mess lol.

That would be even better if two people were scum in that group (i dont think this is actually true, but the thought is so fun to think of)
Oh I've been in a game that had 2 scum neighbors and 1 town, the townie was pocketed as hell and I'm not sure how the scum managed the theater or whatever. Town won the game in the end, though.
 

Blind Ninja

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Ok, since you also mentioned the neighborhood, do you have any thoughts on who's most likely to be scum of us 3, at least based on our posts in the thread?

I still don't feel like I should tinfoil ä them right now, but I want some external opinions nonetheless. Regardless of whether we're all town or if someone's scum in the hood, I think particularly if it's a scumteam of 3 and 2 are still alive, we should be talking about this since it could later prove to be valuable depending on flips.
How about this.... I would like the 3 neighbors to humor me

What are 3 reasons you see each neighbor as townie and 2 reasons you think they could be scum
 

VoidKitten

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Oh I've been in a game that had 2 scum neighbors and 1 town, the townie was pocketed as hell and I'm not sure how the scum managed the theater or whatever. Town won the game in the end, though.
The reason I say that is Foxxi was a SK in Val's game. Another player had the power to invite people into a neighbor chat (kinda like what you were talking about w/ recruiting).

Foxxi ran that entire neighbor chat (Claws as included so thats where the hope that it happens again comes from). Every single person believed she was town. She even got them to turn on another one of their neighbors.

Ultimately, Foxxi lost because of how the mechanics work, but she resigned in the thread by admitting who she was (no chance at victory at this point).

Claws was pissed and I remind him about it from time to time because it amuses me. He won't ever let Foxxi fool him again :D
 

VoidKitten

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@Badger A follow up since it didn't touch exactly what I was aiming at.

You changed your mind about Mitch overall. You had him as town alongside WA even when they were bickering back and forth.

The next day you voted on him because you didn't like that he didn't full claim.
 

Matthieu

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Matthieu tilted his head to one side in the manner of a curious feline. If the three neighbours were indeed trustworthy then the murderer on the loose would have to target them preferably sooner rather than later in order to win. With that in mind, he tentatively wanted to assume that it would be a mystery that would resolve itself one way or the other.
 

VoidKitten

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Matthieu tilted his head to one side in the manner of a curious feline. If the three neighbours were indeed trustworthy then the murderer on the loose would have to target them preferably sooner rather than later in order to win. With that in mind, he tentatively wanted to assume that it would be a mystery that would resolve itself one way or the other.
I have been arguing this over and over on what needs to happen and I tend to agree. Scum need to take out someone in the neighborhood, IF they are all clean, otherwise they have voting majority (only to prevent a yeet, not cause one).

But I could see a world where a scum in the neighborhood kills one to make the rest of the hood "clean"
 

VoidKitten

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The issue with the neighborhood is the fact all three of them have clearly discussed endgaming themselves. So if there is one scum in there, its almost a guaranteed lylo that scum makes it into, even if they lose others.

But again, its up to the people in the neighborhood, ESPECIALLY with 3 of them, to determine it themselves if the others are town or scum. I know my thoughts from a game building perspective, but I didn't build this one so I just can't say what'd happen.
 

VoidKitten

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So basically, if they are all clean, scum is in a rough spot and really need to kill one.

If there is at least one scum in there, I can see ignoring the neighborhood or killing someone inside of it.
 

WindwardAway

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How about this.... I would like the 3 neighbors to humor me

What are 3 reasons you see each neighbor as townie and 2 reasons you think they could be scum
Satsu:
+ He claimed kiwi in the hood, before Val, and then after Val claimed in the thread, started trying to figure out why Val would have claimed (including duplicate flavor as a red herring, scum making up a flavor, and I think one more reason).
+ Related to the kiwi thing, Satsu said he wanted to vote Val and wait to see what happened rather than explaining right away, because he wanted to fake breadcrumb cop to see if he could bait scum to kill him. Claws told him to cc kiwi anyway and he agreed to it.
+ I've been able to see his read progressions as he writes them, and he actually did not have Claws and me at 100% town (but pretty high) the last time I asked how certain he was. He started off very wary of us and moved us up the more we discussed our reads.
- Scum hasn't tried to kill him, despite the breadcrumb attempt and his flavor claim.
- Since Val was fairly inactive, maybe he and Satsu agreed to flip Val for credit (but doesn't explain the timing on the claims).

Claws:
+ He's been giving thoughts of his own from time to time, and not just commenting on stuff that Satsu and I say.
+ He has thrown suspicion toward both Satsu and me, saying he does think we're both town, but still has shown some paranoia I think he'd just drop as scum. As Satsu pointed out, Claws wasn't even sure Satsu was town yesterday, but he preferred to believe Satsu over Val and assumed there was a scum between them.
+ He's thrown around ideas very freely like who he'd want to shoot or cop if he could. I don't think he has a reason to spitball reads like that as scum because it just creates more work for him to keep up an appearance.
- He's been pretty convinced VK is scum since he went quiet yesterday, seems a bit confbiasy. Not sure what his current read is, though.
- He did mention in hood chat about what might happen if we're in LyLo together, as well as in the thread (tbf this is a bit out of context cause I couldn't think of a more negative point; it's not like he was planning for it to happen so much as preparing for a worst case scenario, as I read it).

I'm ngl my reasons on why they could be scum were partly borrowed and not original thoughts but I had to come up with something to say here lol.
 

WindwardAway

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I have been arguing this over and over on what needs to happen and I tend to agree. Scum need to take out someone in the neighborhood, IF they are all clean, otherwise they have voting majority (only to prevent a yeet, not cause one).

But I could see a world where a scum in the neighborhood kills one to make the rest of the hood "clean"
I think this resolves itself kind of neatly if we flip a scum today (especially if it ends the game, but if there's 2 scum in total there's gotta be a 3p somewhere and I don't know that it would be a survivor/jester for sure). There are fewer places for scum to hide in the case that there's only one left, at any rate.

If we misexe and flip town today, it's gonna be rough cause almost any kill is wifom and we'd be relying on a successful block from you, assuming you're a town roleblocker. We wouldn't know if there's one scum or two scum left.

If matthieu is town, I think he should motion detect someone he expects won't go anywhere *unless* they're scum performing the kill. And if we flip scum today and the game continues, I think we can catch the kill that way.

If matt is scum then that suggestion goes out the window 😆
 

WindwardAway

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The issue with the neighborhood is the fact all three of them have clearly discussed endgaming themselves. So if there is one scum in there, its almost a guaranteed lylo that scum makes it into, even if they lose others.

But again, its up to the people in the neighborhood, ESPECIALLY with 3 of them, to determine it themselves if the others are town or scum. I know my thoughts from a game building perspective, but I didn't build this one so I just can't say what'd happen.
It's not just LyLo situations we've discussed lol, we've also discussed where to look if one of us gets killed, etc. There have been a lot of discussions. xD
 

MitchRapp

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I think this resolves itself kind of neatly if we flip a scum today (especially if it ends the game, but if there's 2 scum in total there's gotta be a 3p somewhere and I don't know that it would be a survivor/jester for sure). There are fewer places for scum to hide in the case that there's only one left, at any rate.

If we misexe and flip town today, it's gonna be rough cause almost any kill is wifom and we'd be relying on a successful block from you, assuming you're a town roleblocker. We wouldn't know if there's one scum or two scum left.

If matthieu is town, I think he should motion detect someone he expects won't go anywhere *unless* they're scum performing the kill. And if we flip scum today and the game continues, I think we can catch the kill that way.

If matt is scum then that suggestion goes out the window 😆
This really hits home for me.
 

WindwardAway

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So basically, if they are all clean, scum is in a rough spot and really need to kill one.

If there is at least one scum in there, I can see ignoring the neighborhood or killing someone inside of it.
I'm ngl I think if one of them were scum, the other two of us would be dead already so that scum doesn't have to keep up appearances. Seems like a lot of work for the amount of talking that's been in the chat.
 

VoidKitten

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I was so excited thinking Badger couldn't be scum because zomg there were 2 last game!

But like, now that im pretty confident that theres more than 2, i feel slightly deflated ahahah.
 

WindwardAway

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I'm ngl I think if one of them were scum, the other two of us would be dead already so that scum doesn't have to keep up appearances. Seems like a lot of work for the amount of talking that's been in the chat.
For that matter I think it's even less likely the hood has 2 scum because then I'd absolutely be dead
 

VoidKitten

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Since, once a neighborhood is revealed, its always sus for someone to claim neighbor when they die.

But with 3, less likely so yeah
 

WindwardAway

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Would you kill them before the neighborhood was revealed? That's an extra person to confirm you.

I guess it all depends on how the convo is going really.
If it's two scum, yeah
Or at least personally I'd expect the townie to die and the 2 scum to reinforce each other's claims, and worst case scenario stage a bus to get one of them to flip scum neighbor and then the third is probably false cleared on that
That would be my thought (and also why I never make assumptions about hood distributions tbh)
 

Badger

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What changed to suddenly make you dislike Mitch and no longer think he was town since I doubt it was the full claim?
It was mostly holding back on the claim but also a comment he made about MTR being a compromise that people can live with since nobody wanted to yeet LDG which kinda pinged me. I did mention that in the vote too.
 

MitchRapp

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I've never really delt with neighborhoods before. Hopefully Satsu remembers some of our talk and can confirm that as he walked me through it. (Side note this is why I thought he was town last time. If he were scum he could have left me to flounder.)

I am throwing this out there because I really have no clue. Is there any incentive for us to kill one of the neighbors in an effort to solve all of them?
 

WindwardAway

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I gotta sleep soon but I'll pick up where I left off when I'm back
This is a decent discussion
 

WindwardAway

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I've never really delt with neighborhoods before. Hopefully Satsu remembers some of our talk and can confirm that as he walked me through it. (Side note this is why I thought he was town last time. If he were scum he could have left me to flounder.)

I am throwing this out there because I really have no clue. Is there any incentive for us to kill one of the neighbors in an effort to solve all of them?
I mean, I said when I claimed that if you needed to flip me as proof then that's fine. Cause I wasn't sure if Satsu was still running with his cop gambit and I didn't want to mess it up for him.
 

WindwardAway

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Read my post replying to BN's question
Actually I did a poor job of explaining it but Satsu wanted to leave a naked vote on Val and keep his flavor claim quiet all day so that if Val flipped scum, scum would think Satsu had copped Val
 

WindwardAway

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Actually I did a poor job of explaining it but Satsu wanted to leave a naked vote on Val and keep his flavor claim quiet all day so that if Val flipped scum, scum would think Satsu had copped Val
And it was Claws who talked him into just cc'ing in the thread instead because he thought it was weird for Satsu not to claim
 

WindwardAway

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Anyway, you have my opinions on both my neighbors and hopefully at some point they'll give their answers too
Ttyl
 

VoidKitten

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And it was Claws who talked him into just cc'ing in the thread instead because he thought it was weird for Satsu not to claim
Can you give me your best thought on why Val claimed kiwi? Where did he get that specific fruit from?

Like if i could get a decent explanation to this or theory, my mind may be able to wrap around it
 

Badger

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I was so excited thinking Badger couldn't be scum because zomg there were 2 last game!

But like, now that im pretty confident that theres more than 2, i feel slightly deflated ahahah.
Don’t lose hope on me anyway.
I was so excited thinking Badger couldn't be scum because zomg there were 2 last game!

But like, now that im pretty confident that theres more than 2, i feel slightly deflated ahahah.
If there’s anything I’m at fault for, it’s maybe being too proactive in defending the MTR hammer which looks it inadvertently came off as scummy to people like CWE.

I feel like I often have to fight from underneath nearly every game because of my “filthy” rep so that’s why I commented it on it early. However it looks like I did indeed needlessly paint a target on my back.
 

Badger

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Sorry mistakenly quoted twice while finishing my thought.
 

MitchRapp

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Hey my 4 year old flooded the bathroom on the 2nd floor. Water is now dripping from the celeing fan on 1st floor. There are no other water spots visible.

Anyone have any experience in this or what I should do?
 

WindwardAway

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Can you give me your best thought on why Val claimed kiwi? Where did he get that specific fruit from?

Like if i could get a decent explanation to this or theory, my mind may be able to wrap around it
I genuinely think he claimed kiwi because that's his flavor. He said he was kiwi this rand but didn't have a flavor last rand (which is true, he only flipped town neighbor, no flavor). We discussed whether flavor meant anything or not but ultimately concluded it didn't seem to mean anything alignment-wise. I thought maybe only vanilla roles got flavors last rand, and Foxxi had changed that this time around. I think Satsu said maybe Val didn't get a flavor this time around for some reason and just picked a fruit because maybe he thought it looked bad not to have a flavor.
 

WindwardAway

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I genuinely think he claimed kiwi because that's his flavor. He said he was kiwi this rand but didn't have a flavor last rand (which is true, he only flipped town neighbor, no flavor). We discussed whether flavor meant anything or not but ultimately concluded it didn't seem to mean anything alignment-wise. I thought maybe only vanilla roles got flavors last rand, and Foxxi had changed that this time around. I think Satsu said maybe Val didn't get a flavor this time around for some reason and just picked a fruit because maybe he thought it looked bad not to have a flavor.
Jesus, I'm half asleep. For whatever reason I thought you said Satsu lmao, sorry about that.

I think at least the second half of my post is kinda relevant but yeah obviously Val did get a flavor.

Im gonna say that Val probably thought flavor was somehow alignment-indicative (because we got no scum flips last rand) and just decided to claim anything that wasn't orange. Why kiwi specifically, I don't know. We didn't see a kiwi flip last game, and nobody claimed kiwi in the thread before he did, so if Satsu is town then Val probably assumed nobody had that flavor. Alternatively, if Val thought flavor was indicative of roles, he could also have been fishing for a counterclaim, but considering Satsu didn't die and Val flipped scum, this seems less likely. And as I said before, if anything, the PRs last rand didn't have flavors so that's not a likely conclusion.
 

WindwardAway

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But maybe it helps to say, along with the timing, I don't think Satsu's confusion in the hood about Val's flavor was fake. He commented right after Val claimed kiwi that it was his flavor, started talking about whether it meant anything and asked if we thought it meant anything, theory crafted as I mentioned before, and he did conclude Val was most likely scum for it but he had some theories where Val could've been town.
 

WindwardAway

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I did consider after seeing Val's flip that maybe he has a scum mate who does have kiwi flavor and they thought swapping claims was a good idea, but I ruled out Satsu being said scum mate because Satsu wouldn't have told Claws and me that his flavor was kiwi in the first place. Which kinda made me rule the entire thing out.
 

WindwardAway

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If Val hadn't just given up (he voted Badger and left, never countered Satsu directly) I would've said it could be a strategic plan to try and cc someone and push them out yesterday, but he wasn't playing like he wanted to push Satsu at all.
 

WindwardAway

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I'm reading through the hood chat again and my conclusion that Satsu is town is still where I'm at

If Satsu was partnered with Val, and Val got bussed, why didn't they put on theater instead? They could've staged a show and fought each other and then waited to see which one flipped. Why bus Val with no retaliation?
 

WindwardAway

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Also, if Satsu was scum then why tell the neighborhood at all that his flavor was also kiwi? He could've either immediately cc'd Val in the thread, or kept it to himself and not said anything.
 

WindwardAway

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I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point so I'm gonna shift gears and iso someone else. I'm going to a film festival after work so I'll check in before then but probably not iso anyone until I'm home, which is still before the 48 hour mark so we should be good on time.
 

WindwardAway

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Also I'm conflicted on whether Badger's wagon is too stagnant to be scum or whether scum just kinda panicked and had to move votes off him. I think a number of the points brought up against Mitch are valid, but I think in his position yesterday I would not have hammered Val if I could push the game into MyLo/LyLo today. Obviously this argument fails if Badger is also scum, cause then it doesn't matter which of his partners he hammers, but I think it's unlikely Mitch is partnered with Badger.
 

WindwardAway

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I guess hypothetically if scum thought Val was a goner then maybe? Personally I don't think the credit from hammering him would've been worth losing a partner but idk how Mitch plays as scum.
 

Claws

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If any1 in the hood is scum it would be satsu but a brother cat wouldnt play me like that
 

Claws

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The reason i trust wind is shes foxxi spewing in hood i dont see her doing that as scum
 

WindwardAway

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The reason i trust wind is shes foxxi spewing in hood i dont see her doing that as scum
Eh, I could probably fake it in a hood chat, not sure to what degree but I wouldn't say that's a particularly good reason to townread me on its own.

Also, didn't someone mention that Foxxi pocketed people as an SK in a hood? I guess that's a bit different since that's uninformed minority and not teamed, but still.
 

Claws

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Eh, I could probably fake it in a hood chat, not sure to what degree but I wouldn't say that's a particularly good reason to townread me on its own.

Also, didn't someone mention that Foxxi pocketed people as an SK in a hood? I guess that's a bit different since that's uninformed minority and not teamed, but still.
No offense i dont think youd be solvey or that talkative in hood chat if you had a scum chat
 

Claws

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I think the only reason i cant fully clear satsu from scum is val and him could potencially of came up with this bus but would satsu be bold enough to risk losing a guy that early
 

Claws

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Eh, I could probably fake it in a hood chat, not sure to what degree but I wouldn't say that's a particularly good reason to townread me on its own.

Also, didn't someone mention that Foxxi pocketed people as an SK in a hood? I guess that's a bit different since that's uninformed minority and not teamed, but still.
It was like my 3rd game i was very pockety
 

WindwardAway

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Interesting to note that the Kumbaya 3 are not voting as a block as previously discussed...
Just because we townread each other doesn't mean we are guaranteed to sheep each other on votes lol, yesterday we did follow Satsu onto Val but I see no reason we should be expected to constantly vote as a bloc. There's a difference between sharing our opinions, and sheeping our opinions.
We've shared our reads in the hood anyway, I don't think either of their votes stick out to me as something we haven't discussed.
 

MitchRapp

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Maybe the symbiotic relationship of the neighborhood isn't as copacetic as we have lead to believe.
 

Satsu

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I think the only reason i cant fully clear satsu from scum is val and him could potencially of came up with this bus but would satsu be bold enough to risk losing a guy that early
Void and someone else i think said they made their final decision to vote val because of fruit claims.
You wanted to go with fruit claim plan more than me. So ultimately you contributed to his death more than me ;>
But theres no way you could plan that with val in so little time. So its one plus point for Claws.
 

WindwardAway

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Maybe the symbiotic relationship of the neighborhood isn't as copacetic as we have lead to believe.
We're not trying to get anyone to believe anything, that's not the goal. The point has been that we've all read each other, in the hood and in the thread, and we haven't wanted to vote each other without good reason. I said as much earlier.
 

Satsu

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Other good thing i can see in Claws is that there is a lot of town paranoia in me. He is sus all the time that one of us is scum or both of us are, and he is going to die and we trying to trick him. Or take him to final 3 and play him. So hes making backup plans. hes not playing this i dont smell scum agenda.
 

Satsu

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One bad thing is that hes a strawberry and last game ldg was scum strawberry. So just in case flavour are reranded within factions and not among all players then. Well what then ;p
 

Claws

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One bad thing is that hes a strawberry and last game ldg was scum strawberry. So just in case flavour are reranded within factions and not among all players then. Well what then ;p
I noticed that too unfortunately i got demoted from fruit vendor to vt nieghborino
 

Claws

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I mean if we wanna yeet my 2 nieghbors im cool with it but im pretty sure scum is elseware
 

Claws

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bouncing boobs GIF
 
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