Fingers of Suspicion

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Mafia 11 - Who's the King?

Val the Moofia Boss

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Vote: Lora

I'm a little annoyed Lora ended day early and killed of LDG. I know some people are going to write it off as "just Lora things" but this could've been opportunistic. Would be good move if she was scum since they would think they could get an easy kill, stifle discussion, and get away with it.
 

Mazer

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What makes Psycho town:
++ He killed a very low profile town while he could have taken out a major threat to scum team and get away with it because it was d1.
+ I've heard that he only does roleplay gimmics as town and he did some this game, but quit later. Hard to say small point.
+ He got picked by someone with no info on the game. He is more likely town just by odds.

What makes psycho scum:

-- he even considered killing high profile players one of those picks was just awful.

Final verdict:

Town Lean


1. The reasons that that this would have been a bad play would have been delineated. Psych's too good of a player to do that. In a scenario where Psych is scum, and nightingale is town, and he kills her without any real reason, I would have gone after him like Wyatt Earp chasing down Curly Bill. And so would have several others. That's a big risk on the person who is automatically a scum wolf in basically any draw. Jarrod was an entirely justifiable kill for psych in either alignment. Doesn't make him scum, but no town points.

2. He does not only do gimmicks as town. He gimmicks as scum too.

3. That logic could be applied to anyone playing the game. In fact, because we can rule out psych from being the kingmaker, he has slightly better odds of being scum than anyone who has not been king yet.


On an additional note, I'm less convinced that was his kill list, and would guess more it was his way to force connections on people easier to have thoughts about.



So.....I do not love this post.
 

Mazer

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Fuck, at this point it would probably be don't kill Lora.

Because he can't be king again.


I see the points about Lora. At that also may be the read. There is a theory of scum kills that he would fit into though.
 

VoidKitten

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Day 3 Vote Count:

Lora - 1 (Val #301)

Not Voting: Claws, FutureHold, Listo, Lora, Llettuce, Mazer, MTR, Nightingale, Psycho, Satsu

It is now Day 3. Day 3 will end at 7:00pm ET on Dec Jan 4th or when the King chooses to execute. If the King does not execute by the end of the day, the King will die.
 

PsychoSoldier

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Why does future look townier?

Honestly, I got a slight negative from the first few posts.
I think it's more detail and conjecture than he normally does this early in general, let alone as scum. Think he would be more sheepish and less forthcoming with his posts if he was scum.

I also don't think Satsu having bad logic makes him scum. I agree the points for why I'm town aren't that strong, but I think he actually believes them.
 

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Especially since Satsu gave himself room to switch his read and could have tried to appeal to Nightingale today by shading me.
 

Mazer

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Especially since Satsu gave himself room to switch his read and could have tried to appeal to Nightingale today by shading me.
That's the one thing that's restricting my read on him right now. But that's hardly definitive, as even though he gave himself room, without a good reason to switch, he'd still get pressed on that. And satsu would certainly know that.

To me future read as someone doing a perfunctory check-in, and then gave specific reads only after a light call-out. And it was quick, so one wonders if thoughts were in the chamber.
 

Mazer

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I'm also not sure that Satsu hasn't decided to ingratiate to Psych with me and nightingale at least moderately sniffing. Regardless of alignment, that can make people react.


I could see that someone could believe some of those points, even though categorically wrong. But 1 is the most legit point. Point 3 was already discussed. Point 4 seems a statement that could be made about anyone. And point 2 pings me the most. It's the created reason play, where if you give a reason from the past, most people don't refute it.

I would love to talk to the person who told Satsu that Psych only gimmicks while town.
 

ForgottenHold

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That's the one thing that's restricting my read on him right now. But that's hardly definitive, as even though he gave himself room, without a good reason to switch, he'd still get pressed on that. And satsu would certainly know that.

To me future read as someone doing a perfunctory check-in, and then gave specific reads only after a light call-out. And it was quick, so one wonders if thoughts were in the chamber.
If you are implying I was coached, I can understand. But I’ve played enough games where scum hasn’t coached me and I mess up. I did a quick read through of D2 since it was so short and combined by D1 reads and just handed them out
 

Satsu

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I would love to talk to the person who told Satsu that Psych only gimmicks while town.
Its a thing that was said 8 games ago or so. You could find it if you really wanted to. I have good memory it happened
 

MTR

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The one thing giving me pause on MTR is how early Tildey died. Tildey is usually a late game target for MTR. Something he has admitted many times. But Tildey’s death is why I brought up Claws earlier
I feel like claws would kill you first though unless the others wanted Tildey first.
 

Mazer

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Its a thing that was said 8 games ago or so. You could find it if you really wanted to. I have good memory it happened
i still think mtr is a good target in the case that sum1 made him talk backwards theres no saying hes not bad.

Another is morri still no response on how he would vote and hes king that bothers me.

psycho being gimmicky is usually town but nothing saying he cant do it as a wolf aswell specially the same gimmick back to back.. (BORING)

and then basically any1 that is quiet in the background that usually would be a lil chatty during day is sus af

I did go back and look. I'm guessing this is what you are referring to, but it seems less definitive than I read your statement.

Also claws was playing as a cult leader.....so......might not be a logical rock to build on.
 

Mazer

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The one thing giving me pause on MTR is how early Tildey died. Tildey is usually a late game target for MTR. Something he has admitted many times. But Tildey’s death is why I brought up Claws earlier
Any other reasons you can think of for Tildey's death?

@MTR

Same question
 

Satsu

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I remember it as a broad idea that multiple people said. it was some time ago he surely could have adapted. its a weak point anyway but doesnt change my opinion that much.
 

MTR

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@FutureHold @Listo95 @Claws @llettuce @Mazer @Lora @Val the Moofia Boss

Who do you not want to see eliminated, please and thank you

@MTR - feels anyone besides lettuce as town?
I feel like Lora for some of the same reasons you mentioned earlier that he didn't really take advantage of being king to take out a strong threat.

Future is feeling more and more town.

I would also say I trust Mazer at this point as well.

not sure what to think of claws or listo. val is probably town but could be a lurking scum.
 

Mazer

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I remember it as a broad idea that multiple people said. it was some time ago he surely could have adapted. its a weak point anyway but doesnt change my opinion that much.
Multiple people talked about whether he would roleplay the same thing twice in a row.

Seems like you're either remembering differently or with a slightly different connotation (which is certainly something that just happens), getting a little confirmation blinders on with psych, or have an agenda for a read.

Or a combo.

Any reads on mtr?
 

Mazer

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I feel like Lora for some of the same reasons you mentioned earlier that he didn't really take advantage of being king to take out a strong threat.

Future is feeling more and more town.

I would also say I trust Mazer at this point as well.

not sure what to think of claws or listo. val is probably town but could be a lurking scum.
Why do you trust me?


From multiple people, the king taking out a strong threat argument befuddles me.

Does anyone else see my point on the type of kills scum would make or am I taking crazy pills?
 

PsychoSoldier

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That's the one thing that's restricting my read on him right now. But that's hardly definitive, as even though he gave himself room, without a good reason to switch, he'd still get pressed on that. And satsu would certainly know that.

To me future read as someone doing a perfunctory check-in, and then gave specific reads only after a light call-out. And it was quick, so one wonders if thoughts were in the chamber.
Usually Future doesn't even give that much when called out for it. Which is why it's towny in my eyes unless he drastically improved his scum game.
 

PsychoSoldier

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As far Satsu, again, my main read there is his progression on me yesterday didn't seem scum motivated. So my take on that recent post is bolstered by my previous read.
 

MTR

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Why do you trust me?


From multiple people, the king taking out a strong threat argument befuddles me.

Does anyone else see my point on the type of kills scum would make or am I taking crazy pills?
This is my first time playing so I am just thinking about this from what I would probably do. I think it has been said early game the kings don't have a lot of info or reads to go on so I mean "accidently" taking out a strong player won't ping people because again no real surprises the king hits town early.

Then again maybe this is not the way to look at things. Learning curve for me here
 

PsychoSoldier

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The one thing giving me pause on MTR is how early Tildey died. Tildey is usually a late game target for MTR. Something he has admitted many times. But Tildey’s death is why I brought up Claws earlier
Ehhh, Tildey was getting no suspicion and came out the gate strong. If they're avoiding killing the main heavy hitters, it's a good kill to do in general. Tildey's death isn't really the reason I'm voting MTR, but I definitely don't think her dying on N2 makes it any less likely.
 

MTR

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Not going to lie here. I would totally kill Tildey N2 at this point and time. She is on a short list of people I want to take out early when I am scum.

That being said I didn't kill Tildey.

And she would totally kill me early as well and actually has.

So her death doesn't really make me think of anyone specific that would want to take her out early.
 

PsychoSoldier

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Why do you trust me?


From multiple people, the king taking out a strong threat argument befuddles me.

Does anyone else see my point on the type of kills scum would make or am I taking crazy pills?
I think for Lora in particular it holds weight. Lora doesn't give a fuck and could get away with it easier than most. So I think going the safe option of killing LDG is particularly towny for him, not as a general rule.

I also think Nightingale made a good point about how leaving her alive could be a more scummy move due to the chance of her becoming king and taking a spontaneous shot.
 

PsychoSoldier

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Not going to lie here. I would totally kill Tildey N2 at this point and time. She is on a short list of people I want to take out early when I am scum.

That being said I didn't kill Tildey.

And she would totally kill me early as well and actually has.

So her death doesn't really make me think of anyone specific that would want to take her out early.
This is I ironically towny
 

PsychoSoldier

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To be honest, the Blind Ninja and Tildey kills make me think one of Mazer/Night has a scum, as I think they both tend to think like me in the sense that the sooner the town high posters die, the sooner the walls close in for "Why hasn't X died yet?"
 

PsychoSoldier

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I know last phase ended early, but I kind of feel a way about Claws doing some solving/prodding on d1 and just kind of floating on d2.
 

MTR

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Why do you trust me?


From multiple people, the king taking out a strong threat argument befuddles me.

Does anyone else see my point on the type of kills scum would make or am I taking crazy pills?
Realized I never answered first question.

More gut than anything at this point. Not giving me scum vibes.
 

Claws

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@Claws where you at? What are your thoughts on things so far?
I just got off work first day back from holidays i dislike being put under the microscope when le'tauce and future get free passes for fuck all iso is the worst too im glad your still here tho

dunno how i feel about mazer or the fox i get good and bad feelings from both mazer still feels agendy and the foxs push on satsu kinda went nowhere however her being king is an excellant way to test some1

Listo being in the background worries me.

Not really happy with the lora excute but what can you do
 

PsychoSoldier

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I enjoyed how you came to your conclusion on narrowing your list down when you were king
I wasn't sure if the use of "interesting" implied it was scummy or something lol


And yeah, I kinda figured you were probably at work today so it's whatever. I'm just kinda spinning my wheels on who I think is sus right now.
 

VoidKitten

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Day 3 Vote Count:

Lora - 1 (Val #301)
Lettuce - 1 (Psycho #348)

Not Voting: Claws, FutureHold, Listo, Lora, Llettuce, Mazer, MTR, Nightingale, Satsu

It is now Day 3. Day 3 will end at 7:00pm ET on Dec Jan 4th or when the King chooses to execute. If the King does not execute by the end of the day, the King will die.
 

Mazer

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To be honest, the Blind Ninja and Tildey kills make me think one of Mazer/Night has a scum, as I think they both tend to think like me in the sense that the sooner the town high posters die, the sooner the walls close in for "Why hasn't X died yet?"
Every time I get off you a little, you go and ping my radar again.

I have never actually gotten you lynched with that argument, and really never expect to. Suspicion, sure. But even Darkest Timeline Mazer couldn't get you lynched with that. My actual strategy play when I need to take you on is much more compelling and fun. But we both know I would just plan on needing to do it as a shot, because you tend not need to be lynched.

My theory on scum is that they have a strong player. I've played kingmaker once and because I was teamed with Psycho and Claws we had a good strategy. We realized that really only numbers and influence were important. To the point that we let two of the strongest players in that game, vk and cwe, live.

And because of that I'm still suspicious of my old teammates. But I'm not sure that strategy was rocket science.
 

PsychoSoldier

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I don't want to give Listo a pass for doing nothing, but I do have a feeling that some of his comments make him town and that's all I really want to say on that right now.

@Listo95 Do you have thoughts on anyone but yourself?
 

Mazer

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I slightly lean town on mtr, even though we disagree on our future leans.
 

Mazer

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I thought I might be leaning town on listo, but I'm not sure this isn't that dissimilar to how he would have wanted to play last game if scum hadn't been on the backburner early.

So still kinda staying neutral.
 

PsychoSoldier

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Could it have been self-pres motivated?
I don't really think so? I assume you're saying he changed tune on me because you and Foxxi felt differently about me and he didn't want to rock the boat in a way that would get him shot? But I don't think he was really in danger at that point and would have more to gain by calling me town and then later being able to say "I told you so" when I flip. At least in the short time frame where his tune changed. Had it been a slower progression, I'd be more concerned about it.
 

PsychoSoldier

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Every time I get off you a little, you go and ping my radar again.

I have never actually gotten you lynched with that argument, and really never expect to. Suspicion, sure. But even Darkest Timeline Mazer couldn't get you lynched with that. My actual strategy play when I need to take you on is much more compelling and fun. But we both know I would just plan on needing to do it as a shot, because you tend not need to be lynched.

My theory on scum is that they have a strong player. I've played kingmaker once and because I was teamed with Psycho and Claws we had a good strategy. We realized that really only numbers and influence were important. To the point that we let two of the strongest players in that game, vk and cwe, live.

And because of that I'm still suspicious of my old teammates. But I'm not sure that strategy was rocket science.
Hold up. I'm not saying you'd use that argument to get me lynched. I'm saying that if you're scum and you kill me and Foxxi early on, that makes it more likely that town will start to question why you're still alive and they aren't. Which I think you're implying with the third paragraph. So in that sense we're on the same page.

With that, how do you feel about Nightingale?
 

PsychoSoldier

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Let me be more specific: how do you feel about Nightingale in the world that you 100% know I'm town?
 

Claws

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I actually dont like mtr and think his tildey d2 bit was openly wolfing
 

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The main thing making me not think Mazer is scum here is I feel he's taking more actual stances today than I would expect from scum!Mazer. Not that he can't fake that, but I think Mazer tends to play as someone who throws ideas into the ether and let's them fester for town to eat itself alive. I got vibes of that from how he's been talking about Satsu, but I also feel he would maybe be focusing more on that and not so much bothering with the other reads he's dropped? This is almost certainly a faulty read but it's what my gut is telling me.
 

Claws

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The main thing making me not think Mazer is scum here is I feel he's taking more actual stances today than I would expect from scum!Mazer. Not that he can't fake that, but I think Mazer tends to play as someone who throws ideas into the ether and let's them fester for town to eat itself alive. I got vibes of that from how he's been talking about Satsu, but I also feel he would maybe be focusing more on that and not so much bothering with the other reads he's dropped? This is almost certainly a faulty read but it's what my gut is telling me.
WTF so is he scum or not what kinda vague take is this
 

Listo95

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I don't want to give Listo a pass for doing nothing, but I do have a feeling that some of his comments make him town and that's all I really want to say on that right now.

@Listo95 Do you have thoughts on anyone but yourself?
Well I am the towniest town to town. When I get off I can try to get some thoughts down.
 

PsychoSoldier

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WTF so is he scum or not what kinda vague take is this
My progression on Mazer has been clear. I liked him coming into today, had some doubt because of the kills, but overall think the way he's played today is more likely town. Which is what I ended that post with. There's nothing vague about it.
 

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Everyone knows my feelings on Night. I think she had a scummy d1 and D2 was sort of a mixed bag for me. I don't think if Mazer is town, then Night is automatically scum because it's also possible scum is just playing clever without either of them being on the team. But if I'm right about the kills and there is scum between them, I think it's more likely Night.

That's irrelevant for today because she has the axe but that's basically my whole thought process on that theory.
 

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It would be great if Night just domed a wolf today and it be a spicy one and I don't have to worry about it, though
 

Claws

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thats the problem leaving her up after your d1 dabacle if you shot you would never have that what if
 

Claws

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you both could be tvt but you'll never know til ya flip or she does
 

Foxxi

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Claws, I'm still waiting for you to tell me who you wouldn't shoot today
 

Claws

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no i just wanna play mmm probably not kill psycho maybe not listo if he comes back with a good answer if not :sniper:
 

Mazer

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I don't really think so? I assume you're saying he changed tune on me because you and Foxxi felt differently about me and he didn't want to rock the boat in a way that would get him shot? But I don't think he was really in danger at that point and would have more to gain by calling me town and then later being able to say "I told you so" when I flip. At least in the short time frame where his tune changed. Had it been a slower progression, I'd be more concerned about it.
Yes. We've both seen how not everyone gets the same reaction when they even mention people. So, I think often assume the safest option is to hold course unless they're pushed more extensively. And Satsu is savvy.

Foxxi, I'm going back and forth on. She had a mild ping on one thing day 1, but she pulled it back some.
 

Claws

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how does every1 feel about not foxxi or psycho its like 2 days of just them and its goin nowhere
 

Mazer

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Let me be more specific: how do you feel about Nightingale in the world that you 100% know I'm town?
I just read this part.

If you were town, it would logically up the percentage some. it would not change my one ping (which I'm consciously sitting on for now), or the later response. The best town side argument in a foxxi/scum and psych/town world is I think she plays you a little different d1 and possibly d2. Could be wrong, and I wouldn't expect to be easy.

Part of it, honestly for me, is we both seemed to be asking ourselves similar questions on d1 and 2, so I'm giving some thought process validations
 

Mazer

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Does anyone have any good reasons I shouldn't shoot claws?
If you get blood on you, you might get a nasty infection.

Best I got.


But I'm putting on record that I'm still peaked on future and satsu. Not to 70 percent yet. But they have things that make me feel are not organic.
 

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If you get blood on you, you might get a nasty infection.

Best I got.


But I'm putting on record that I'm still peaked on future and satsu. Not to 70 percent yet. But they have things that make me feel are not organic.
What is it about future that bothers you? I actually kinda agree with psycho that his play has felt way different than his recent scum games, that he's engaging in the thread more and just overall less wooden.
 

Lora

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Vote: Lora

I'm a little annoyed Lora ended day early and killed of LDG. I know some people are going to write it off as "just Lora things" but this could've been opportunistic. Would be good move if she was scum since they would think they could get an easy kill, stifle discussion, and get away with it.
cry me a river.
 

Lora

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for the record, i lynched ldg for the memes. not because i thought she was scum. does that make me scummy? sure. do i care? no. am i town? yes. deal with it. UwU
 

Claws

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Ha Ha Ha Lol GIF
 

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shooting people based off their post count is stupid as fuck
 

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Yes. We've both seen how not everyone gets the same reaction when they even mention people. So, I think often assume the safest option is to hold course unless they're pushed more extensively. And Satsu is savvy.

Foxxi, I'm going back and forth on. She had a mild ping on one thing day 1, but she pulled it back some.
To clarify, I'm not arguing that scum!Satsu couldn't play like this. But I do heavily think it's unlikely that he would.
 

Claws

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for the record, i lynched ldg for the memes. not because i thought she was scum. does that make me scummy? sure. do i care? no. am i town? yes. deal with it. UwU
BN's rolling in his grave at this i can feel it
 

Claws

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Explain this
the chat has mostly been placed around you the fox and mazer "top players" as you will and its getting tiresome just hearing this ill give you the benifit you have proded some ppl but im just not feeling it. it always reverts to you three
 

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Jan 8, 2023
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Does anyone have any good reasons I shouldn't shoot claws?
I'ma be honest, these recent posts skeeve me out. Feels like he was trying to egg me on against you, and the way he jumped at my Mazer read feels very reach-y like he's trying to find something to shade me for.
 
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