Mafia 7: Everyone Loves Listo. Except the Devil.

[VoidKitten]

Badger's flip was wholly unsurprising. Not that he was killed, but what he flipped as.

 

[VoidKitten]

Either way, we should make sure to let people check in and not speed yeet future

He needs to go though and not just give him a pass like we tend to do. No speed yeet needed I agree. It looks like we potentially have info.

 

[rock meets hard place]

if it were me I would have killed like Kryllian or LDG but its not a vig so might not be helping town

 

[VoidKitten]

why is Future being scum so funny?

Because the first game I decide to end our game relationship and break up with him, he flips red. In the same day, also gets 4 votes added to him leading to his yeet. His reaction was clearly genuine. The new rule was likely true and it got him yeeted. Then gets resurrected, but is already flipped as scum.

Its funny lmao.

 

[Foxxi]

Also, the only person on future yeet 1.0 that I feel should get any cred for being on that train is Val. VK would absolutely vote a partner there for later cred, Grumpy wanted to go for CWE or MTR and didn't even mention future, only voting once it seemed like future would be the only possible yeet -( though I should go look at the exact timing, if Grumpy could have feasibly voted someone else that may have nudged it from future then maybe small points here), and psycho's vote wasn't actually needed since future was far enough in the lead close enough to EoD that it would be unlikely for him not to be the yeet. My vote on him didn't really matter either really, I was just hoping we'd reach majority and avoid that penalty. Though now I'm not sure if there actually is a penalty or if that's just more bastardness from Mazer

 

[rock meets hard place]

let me play devil's advocate here. We know Future is scum, and flipping him does guarantee that he's not able to use his action but towwn had a roleblock or something should we consider flipping someone else or is it not worth the risk in a game thats going to be solved through write ups/night actions?

 

[VoidKitten]

Also, the only person on future yeet 1.0 that I feel should get any cred for being on that train is Val. VK would absolutely vote a partner there for later cred, Grumpy wanted to go for CWE or MTR and didn't even mention future, only voting once it seemed like future would be the only possible yeet -( though I should go look at the exact timing, if Grumpy could have feasibly voted someone else that may have nudged it from future then maybe small points here), and psycho's vote wasn't actually needed since future was far enough in the lead close enough to EoD that it would be unlikely for him not to be the yeet. My vote on him didn't really matter either really, I was just hoping we'd reach majority and avoid that penalty. Though now I'm not sure if there actually is a penalty or if that's just more bastardness from Mazer

I like this. A little annoyed you came out with it so quickly because I wanted to see who might try to give me cred for Future of which there should be none.

 

[VoidKitten]

let me play devil's advocate here. We know Future is scum, and flipping him does guarantee that he's not able to use his action but towwn had a roleblock or something should we consider flipping someone else or is it not worth the risk in a game thats going to be solved through write ups/night actions?

This is the path I always typically go and it either works or it backfires. His role was Scum Deceiver. If scum expect him to be blocked, they could use a protect which most teams usually have one of. Barring confirmed info, I wouldn't want to flip anyone without getting rid of Future first. But like, its not a hill I'd die on and would consider another.

 

[Claws]

let me play devil's advocate here. We know Future is scum, and flipping him does guarantee that he's not able to use his action but towwn had a roleblock or something should we consider flipping someone else or is it not worth the risk in a game thats going to be solved through write ups/night actions?

I disagree this is like last games psycho sk debacle

 

[Foxxi]

I kinda want to train up grumpy with future and see what happens honestly
Vote: GrumpyCat

 

[rock meets hard place]

a protect (doctor?) nullifies a roleblock? what is this witchcraft?!?

 

[Blind Ninja]

let me play devil's advocate here. We know Future is scum, and flipping him does guarantee that he's not able to use his action but towwn had a roleblock or something should we consider flipping someone else or is it not worth the risk in a game thats going to be solved through write ups/night actions?

The only way I would be on board with this is IF we had info on another scum

 

[GrumpyCat]

I kinda want to train up grumpy with future and see what happens honestly
Vote: GrumpyCat

One scum in the focus group was already discovered. Others are clear. Its a law.

 

[Mazer]

Wait... Mazer said majority is 10 but we didn't hit majority yesterday, wouldn't it be 9 now then?

Yes

 

[Blind Ninja]

a protect (doctor?) nullifies a roleblock? what is this witchcraft?!?

If they have a motivator of sorts, it would go off before a RB

 

[rock meets hard place]

Its a law.

is it j-law?

 

[Blind Ninja]

Yes

can we get a vote count

 

[Mazer]

Yes

Updated

 

[rock meets hard place]

how many scum are there in a 23 player? I would think 5-6 but it is role madness and me not really understanding what is considered balanced on this site. Or is this not even something I should be worried about as the game will resolve on its on?

 

[VoidKitten]

how many scum are there in a 23 player? I would think 5-6 but it is role madness and me not really understanding what is considered balanced on this site. Or is this not even something I should be worried about as the game will resolve on its on?

The Rajah originating mods tend to be slightly scum heavier. If it were my game, I'd do 6 if I had like a SK or murdery neutral. 7 if I didn't or there was decent killing power.

 

[Claws]

WhAt iS BaLaNcE

 

[VoidKitten]

WhAt iS BaLaNcE

Also this. Some games are beyond what anyone would considered balance and they typically end up pretty even.

 

[Listo95]

GAME EVENT:

A powerful force looked out from their Hollywood Mansion. They had not yet made their presence felt. They scoffed at the notions of good evil. What they cared about was entertainment.

They decided to bring Future back into the game.

Doesn't this bring us to 20 players, requiring 11 to lynch, therefore needing 10?

 

[Dreyski]

The Rajah originating mods tend to be slightly scum heavier. If it were my game, I'd do 6 if I had like a SK or murdery neutral. 7 if I didn't or there was decent killing power.

Without checking, it's typically 25-33% non town (so 6-8 in this game). And we've got our inactivity killer, whether its mod or player controlled I do not know.
So I was either tracked or watched, which makes a nice change. But in a game this large, hopefully we've got a backup because losing our doc is not helpful.

Resses after flips? Guess I can still be surpised at these games.
Vote: future

 

[Mazer]

Future (3)- vk,bn, dreyski
grumpy (1) -nighty

Hammer is at 9

 

[VoidKitten]

So it wasn't vote stuff on BN (unless its the hidden type like we have been seeing) and hammer is at 9. Maybe cPsycho's doing?

 

[Blind Ninja]

So... I still have a vote

 

[Foxxi]

Future (3)- vk,bn, dreyski
grumpy (1) -nighty

Hammer is at 9

Isn't listo right? Future coming back would move it up to 11, and then drop it back to 10?

 

[VoidKitten]

Isn't listo right? Future coming back would move it up to 11, and then drop it back to 10?

I mean he counted Dreyski's vote after Listo asked and specifically said hammer was 9, so I assume some fuckery.

 

[Blind Ninja]

Should also say, that just because 2 scum acted on me, doesnt clear me. RB and whatever Mom did dont seem completely negative. It does however clear me from being anyone that acted.

 

[VoidKitten]

Why bus drive Xan and Listo? No one else acted on them that night.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Maybe they wanted to take Listo out by inactivity vig shot on Xan?

 

[VoidKitten]

Maybe they wanted to take Listo out by inactivity vig shot on Xan?

I mean thats possible I guess, but what were the odds Xan would be chosen for kill over like LDG. I guess its WIFOM on whomever has the action though.

 

[Claws]

Maybe they wanted to take Listo out by inactivity vig shot on Xan?

Thats kinda a shot in the dark with the amount of non actives but maybe

 

[Mazer]

Doesn't this bring us to 20 players, requiring 11 to lynch, therefore needing 10?

Isn't listo right? Future coming back would move it up to 11, and then drop it back to 10?

Hammer is at 9

 

[Foxxi]

Maybe because Xan actually got some votes for his absence they thought odds were higher he'd be targeted? Also possible Xan is scum and they wanted to prevent the possibility he'd get got if they were worried about an inactivity vig. Or I guess Listo could be scum and the idea was to divert any possible investigations/tracks whatever.

 

[Foxxi]

Well then that makes me wonder if future actually is alive, or if he's like stumped or a kinda husk that we could waste a yeet on and get nothing from it

 

[Jarrod1983]

Mtr(1) - crich
Xan (2)- Kryll, cwe
listo(1) - robo
psych (1)- badger
matt (1) -dreyski
vk (2) -bn, claws
rock (1)-llettuce
badger(1)- jarrod
future (9)- vk, Jay,gc, val, night, psych
jarrod (1) - rock
kryll (1)- Listo
sleep (3) - mtr, future, matt

D1 voting. Now that we know Future is scum, what scum was hiding on this train, trying to plant seeds of their innocence for their Future (ha jokes)? Void, Grumpy, Val, Nightingale and Psycho, I'm betting one is scum.

What game has had Void, Psycho and Nightingale all fighting for the good guys? Gut says one is red. Void had a vote on Future before the influx of votes from Jay. Shit hits the fan with votes and maybe Void doesn't want to jump off knowing Future will pop red. Psycho votes right at the end when it was pretty unnecessary.

Day phase opens and Void is right there to greet, with general fun comments. Is he our friend? Definite Vince McMahon vibes here from how he played lead red in my last game.

Taking that further, Void would have days planned in advance, multiple "what if" time lines depending on what happens. My point is the Future resurrection could be a Void plan for us to mildly rush this day phase, voting Future again. Town treads water while red kills again at night. The write up said a powerful force thats so far unseen brought Future back, could just be another red hidden.

I could be wrong but I might be right.

Vote: VoidKitten

 

[Jarrod1983]

Also meant to say Void is already leading the charge on the Future vote again. He'd definitely want to control the narrative and guide town that way.

 

[VoidKitten]

That was a really nice wall post, but I am not red :)

 

[Foxxi]

Also meant to say Void is already leading the charge on the Future vote again. He'd definitely want to control the narrative and guide town that way.

This is not an impossible narrative... but why are you focused on him specifically? What do you think about me, grumpy, psycho? Why did you completely ignore Val? Ngl - this kinda reeks of an agenda to push the idea there's another scum on that train since you aren't bothering to actually look at the whole train and just seem to have picked a person to declare is sus

 

[VoidKitten]

Future was the obvious way to go. With the majority difference, it puts a damper on that a touch.

 

[rock meets hard place]

They scoffed at the notions of good evil. What they cared about was entertainment.

this part makes me feel like it was a 3rd party

 

[Foxxi]

Sorry, you did mention his name, but like me it was just to note we were there

 

[Jarrod1983]

You might not be Void. I didn't really expect a "Oh you got me" reply. Just things bouncing around my brain and thought I'd share.

 

[Foxxi]

You might not be Void. I didn't really expect a "Oh you got me" reply. Just things bouncing around my brain and thought I'd share.

How do you feel about grumpy not including future in his original vote choice, or offering to swap to someone else if they reached 7 instead?

 

[VoidKitten]

It is also not unnecessary to vote. Without hitting hammer, majority is reduced.

 

[Foxxi]

It is also not unnecessary to vote. Without hitting hammer, majority is reduced.

Psycho's vote was literally right at EoD and it wasn't going to (clearly) make us reach maj - it ultimately made zero difference

 

[VoidKitten]

Psycho's vote was literally right at EoD and it wasn't going to (clearly) make us reach maj - it ultimately made zero difference

What benefit would scum Psycho hope to get from that vote then? I get its ultimately pointless, but why then?

 

[Foxxi]

What benefit would scum Psycho hope to get from that vote then? I get its ultimately pointless, but why then?

No clue. I don't honestly see a reason for the vote no matter what alignment he is.

 

[rock meets hard place]

its not really impossible that Void votes his buddy to distance but I don't think mafia revived mafia. The "town" thing to do is vote Future so Void would still have to.

 

[VoidKitten]

No clue. I don't honestly see a reason for the vote no matter what alignment he is.

Maybe just to get put on record of where he wanted at EoD? I can see the questioning of it, but it felt strange framed as inherently negative.

 

[Jarrod1983]

Sorry, you did mention his name, but like me it was just to note we were there

I mostly concentrated on Void because of how he played Vince and just seemed that surrounding actions were mostly feeding my thought on Void.

Just because I went more in depth on Void doesn't mean I think it's him. I do believe one scum is on the Future vote. I just had pings on him.

That vote on the end by Psycho is peculiar like I mentioned.

You, Val and GC have that sweet spot right in the middle of the train but that's all I have to go on there so didn't bother going out of my way to type it because I'm cooking Mav dinner but since you asked I'll kindly type it out for you.

 

[Matthieu]

I agree that Future should be taken out today but don't 'speed' through the day phase since there's a rule that strongly encourages at least five posts.

 

[VoidKitten]

I don't really recall Jarrod doing agendas in previous scum games so this comes off more as him trying to figure things out however he can.

 

[Jarrod1983]

its not really impossible that Void votes his buddy to distance but I don't think mafia revived mafia. The "town" thing to do is vote Future so Void would still have to.

Why wouldn't mafia revive mafia? Would mafia rather revive town? It could have been a scum action designed to waste a day phase for town having to eliminate a known scum again.

The fact that the person responsible for the resurrection is hidden doesn't strike me as town friendly.

 

[VoidKitten]

Why wouldn't mafia revive mafia? Would mafia rather revive town? It could have been a scum action designed to waste a day phase for town having to eliminate a known scum again.

The fact that the person responsible for the resurrection is hidden doesn't strike me as town friendly.

Why even put that in a game? There are so many other ways to waste a day than giving scum a rez that will only be used to rez a teammate. Granted, I don't think we have ever seen rezzes after flips before so its new territory.

 

[Matthieu]

Why even put that in a game?

A desire for pure chaos.

 

[Matthieu]

This will be a Role Madness game. Which will include a bit of devilry (wink, wink).

Remember, this is a thing.

 

[Foxxi]

Again I will point out that Mazer confirmed maj is at 9. With 20 people alive, maj would be 11, reduced to 10 -- this makes me wonder if future even *is* alive. It could be a scum ability to fake a rez or something

 

[Jarrod1983]

Why even put that in a game? There are so many other ways to waste a day than giving scum a rez that will only be used to rez a teammate. Granted, I don't think we have ever seen rezzes after flips before so its new territory.

There are but why not? Why resurrect the scum? To watch town go through the process again. The whole thing seems designed to fuck with town (Mazerrrrr!). At most town chases their tails with different theories. The least we waste D2 voting Future again.

 

[rock meets hard place]

Why wouldn't mafia revive mafia? Would mafia rather revive town? It could have been a scum action designed to waste a day phase for town having to eliminate a known scum again.

The fact that the person responsible for the resurrection is hidden doesn't strike me as town friendly.

Since you clearly didn't read my other post...the way its written makes me think the revive came from 3rd party. Maybe its just mafia the wrote it that way to throw us off or the mod himself is trying to throw us for a loop. You might be right that Void is scum and was distancing from Future but the revive might not be from him.

 

[Claws]

How does resing scum help a 3p tho specially early on i could maybe see that late game as a survival tactic

 

[rock meets hard place]

Why resurrect the scum?

going with my 3rd party theory, resurrecting scum (assuming that scum is lynched) guarantees safety and doesn't really advance the game state.

 

[Jarrod1983]

Since you clearly didn't read my other post...the way its written makes me think the revive came from 3rd party. Maybe its just mafia the wrote it that way to throw us off or the mod himself is trying to throw us for a loop. You might be right that Void is scum and was distancing from Future but the revive might not be from him.

Yes I understood that the revive could be 3rd party. I never ruled that out.

I love the you don't read comments, yes I read it but was still asking questions about a possible other scenario. Thanks for assuming.

I also never said it was Void, I said it could have been red. They are a team and if Void is red he would be directing traffic and would specifically ask the mod if it would show red doing the rez or it would be covered.

If it is a 3rd party, then they don't seem town friendly and need to go asap. I would think the 3rd party would fence ride a little more rather than resurrecting a scum on D2. They've dug a hole that will get them eliminated when they are figured out. That is why I question 3rd party or scum.

 

[Jarrod1983]

How does resing scum help a 3p tho specially early on i could maybe see that late game as a survival tactic

Exactly. Better said than I did.

 

[Jarrod1983]

going with my 3rd party theory, resurrecting scum (assuming that scum is lynched) guarantees safety and doesn't really advance the game state.

It's a long way to go and they've painted themselves as a scum helper. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[rock meets hard place]

I'm not saying that it has to be. Just that the flavor could be interpreted as not mafia. Ultimately it doesn't really matter though. You could just argue Occams and say it was scum but I don't see how it helps them that much either.

 

[Jarrod1983]

I'm not saying that it has to be. Just that the flavor could be interpreted as not mafia. Ultimately it doesn't really matter though. You could just argue Occams and say it was scum but I don't see how it helps them that much either.

It has us chasing our tails, possibly getting town to finger each other and ultimately makes us eliminate Future again. It could be a hoax like Night said, Future could be a scum stump that won't be eliminated if we vote there. Either way a whole day phase vote down the tubes. The day vote is our most powerful asset. Wasting it helps scum.

 

[CRichardFoL]

GAME EVENT:

A powerful force looked out from their Hollywood Mansion. They had not yet made their presence felt. They scoffed at the notions of good evil. What they cared about was entertainment.

They decided to bring Future back into the game.

Are you kidding me?

 

[CRichardFoL]

Future was far ahead of the alternative trains EoD1, so that makes me suspect they were bussed.

 

[CRichardFoL]

If the Future train didn't have even a single scum joining for cred, I'd be shocked as they were being called out left and right for being scummy correctly.

 

[CRichardFoL]

Seriously, does anyone say with a straight face that Future wasn't bussed?

 

[GrumpyCat]

Why bus FH at all? He was such an easy save. Sleep vote was perfectly reasonable choice for yesterday. Scum could easily pile on sleep vote and they wouldnt be considered scummy even if fh died later on. For me at least.

 

[CRichardFoL]

Why bus FH at all? He was such an easy save. Sleep vote was perfectly reasonable choice for yesterday. Scum could easily pile on sleep vote and they wouldnt be considered scummy even if fh died later on. For me at least.

Assuming Future was bussed, it would have been closer/near EoD so from the voter order. I'd trust the early Future voters as town more than the late voters on the Future train.

 

[CRichardFoL]

I'm trying to figure out if Jarrod making sense is because they're figuring things out as town, or if they're mafia with TMI on what happened N1 events surrounding Future.

 

[Jarrod1983]

Assuming Future was bussed, it would have been closer/near EoD so from the voter order. I'd trust the early Future voters as town more than the late voters on the Future train.

Literally Mazer posted vote Count at 2:39 before time is up.

Psycho unvotes Grumpy and vote Future at 2:41.

Mazer calls time at 2:41 the post after.

Psycho can jump around with his vote but for some reason I don't like this last second jump.

I will say Void being on Future before the 4 votes makes me wary. If they are both red it could have been harmless scum on scum vote coverage at first but after the votes it would make jumping off seem weird on Void's part when Future pops red. Also knowing Future is cooked Void's smart enough to stay on that train knowing he can point out he voted Future before the votes and he'd have that street cred.

 

[CRichardFoL]

I will say Void being on Future before the 4 votes makes me wary. If they are both red it could have been harmless scum on scum vote coverage at first but after the votes it would make jumping off seem weird on Void's part when Future pops red. Also knowing Future is cooked Void's smart enough to stay on that train knowing he can point out he voted Future before the votes and he'd have that street cred.

I see your point. Void doesn't come across as town unless it's because they voted Future, when I don't see anything breaking the world where Void as mafia votes their buddy Future knowing their goose is cooked D1.

 

[Jarrod1983]

I'm trying to figure out if Jarrod making sense is because they're figuring things out as town, or if they're mafia with TMI on what happened N1 events surrounding Future.

Fair question but no. I am town. I'm so quiet as scum, I've never been accused of being scum with TMI posting.

 

[Claws]

Bussing early generally doesnt happen early around here not that it couldnt but its just not used alot this early your more likely to see a fumble from sum1 trying to save the lynch but we didnt .
i agree with grumpy on the one fact scum could of all voted sleep so im a bit confused here It may have been different if future took sum1 with him in a 1 for 1

 

[Jarrod1983]

They could have gone no lynch but the more brazen play would be to put yourself on there and claim later you couldn't be scum because you voted Future D1. That wouldn't completely obsolve the player but is a nice footnote to add to a town resume. Maybe a lesser player couldn't spin that so well but looking at the strong players on that Future train it could definitely help fill in a narrative a scum Psycho for example could spin. I don't recall GC play so much but VK, Night, Val or Psycho could do well with that misdirection.

 

[Foxxi]

Bussing early generally doesnt happen early around here not that it couldnt but its just not used alot this early your more likely to see a fumble from sum1 trying to save the lynch but we didnt .
i agree with grumpy on the one fact scum could of all voted sleep so im a bit confused here It may have been different if future took sum1 with him in a 1 for 1

Personally I think that would have been more viable if more people had voted sleep. It had like 3 votes iirc , and future had like 7 votes before the votes I and psycho cast. It would have taken four votes at that point just to *tie* -- I don't see any world in which scum pile onto sleep to save future unless some other town also did. Future was even one of those three on sleep already. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Matt or MTR is also scum since I would expect *some* other scum to have tried to nudge it that way.

 

[Foxxi]

Who all are usually the ND1L4L crowd? Who usually always votes sleep but didn't?

 

[Jarrod1983]

I'd really like to hear from Future just to see what they think but expect radio silence.

 

[Jarrod1983]

Who all are usually the ND1L4L crowd? Who usually always votes sleep but didn't?

I usually go that route but kept my vote on Badger. I like that itchy sonofagun.

 

[CRichardFoL]

I'd really like to hear from Future just to see what they think but expect radio silence.

I'm guessing they'd argue someone altered their flip.

 

[CRichardFoL]

Does anyone want to claim any of the night deaths? I'll take any non-claims as evidence we have a serial killer in the game.

 

[Foxxi]

Does anyone want to claim any of the night deaths? I'll take any non-claims as evidence we have a serial killer in the game.

Claims aren't allowed in this game

 

[CRichardFoL]

Claims aren't allowed in this game

They aren't?

 

[CRichardFoL]

They aren't?

I mean we aren't allowed to claim this game?

 

[Claws]

Dems the rules if you have info claim "dees" its a lil different most info comes from write ups and spreadsheetimg its a weird way to play mafia but it works

 

[CRichardFoL]

Do not claim roles or breadcrumb. I will kill you way faster than voidkitten.

Oh right.

 

[Mazer]

GAME EVENT INCOMING

Listo raised his mighty fist and prepared to strike down Future. But the Fist of Listo connected with naught but air.

 

[Blind Ninja]

Interesting... So we can vote for Future, but Listo's action had no effect. Wonder if the rez is a red hearing.

 

[VoidKitten]

I will say Void being on Future before the 4 votes makes me wary. If they are both red it could have been harmless scum on scum vote coverage at first but after the votes it would make jumping off seem weird on Void's part when Future pops red. Also knowing Future is cooked Void's smart enough to stay on that train knowing he can point out he voted Future before the votes and he'd have that street cred.

This would assume that I would consider that I'd have cred in a situation like that. It gives me no cred to have stayed on Future.

I'd have stayed on Future because swapped off would have looked strange after the 4 votes.

 

[VoidKitten]

It looks like FH liked that event post. I think that likely answers the question as if the action hitting air didn't.

Unvote:

 

[VoidKitten]

I'm trying to figure out if Jarrod making sense is because they're figuring things out as town, or if they're mafia with TMI on what happened N1 events surrounding Future.

I postulated this earlier. I am leaning the former.

 

[VoidKitten]

I'm torn between pushing up Xanjori or MTR.

 

[Blind Ninja]

Unvote:

Guess back to my d1 vote

Vote: Voidd

 

[VoidKitten]

Vote: MTR

Will put it there. I almost went Xanjori because of the bus drive, but he isn't here and I really don't want to push someone who is inactive.