Mafia 14: Quest for Mafia - So you want to be a Hero?

[Tildey]

I’ve been a little busy, but I don’t think Tildey and I are scum. I believe we are both town.

If I was to pick someone as possibly scum, I would probably go for Badger because he keeps badgering me

I am super tired of people using the phrase "Tildey and I." This is sus for the same reason MTR trying to pair with me and pair with Future.

 

[Blind Ninja]

Looking back, Insaner seemed to have thought BN was scum

I know killing your loudest opponents is sus, but we have seen it happen as a deception or misdirection tactic before

Do you expect me to consistently do things that I know will make me look sus and shady throughout the game? Do you think Im that brazen as scum?

 

[Tildey]

How many was it that Claws saw again?

Four....1. Claws, 2. Blind Ninja, 3. You, 4. Future

I don't know if the order is important, but that's the order that he gave them.

 

[Tildey]

I agree on the fact he would’ve said something in the result of a poison.

Well if it’s not a Mafia kill (if they killed Insaner) nor an SK kill on Listo…then the only thing that might make sense if his death not being caused by someone targeting him…but maybe he picked the wrong target and they had something on them to trigger his death.

That's an interesting thought.

 

[Badger]

We already know that, since Claws said they saw you visit listo.

But I also know that nobody can really say what they were doing there.

That is true. However Future and I have said our actions are not successful.

Assuming you are sleeping now but when you wake up, can you say if your action was successful or not?

 

[Blind Ninja]

That is true. However Future and I have said our actions are not successful.

Assuming you are sleeping now but when you wake up, can you say if your action was successful or not?

Im in and out of it... have a question to Foxxi to see if what I want to say is too much or not

 

[Badger]

To be fair, I never said I didn't have a clue. I said I was on the fence. At that point in time he had not done anything to tip my scales one way or the other.

Okay I suppose that is fair. I’ve also read your MTR breakdown too and I will take your for it for now.

So it seems it may turn into a choice between BN, Future and myself. We indeed can’t say what we did. All the more I’m going to say is suggest that people do ISOs and try and get a feel for our posts. Future pointed out vote placement already but see if you guys can get a glean.

The only other defence I have at this point is if I flip scum, Mazer will never eveeeeeerrrrrr[/Jericho] let me forget it. I know I can be sometimes fluffy or manipulative as scum but D1 in particular was essentially me unpacking years of frustration about being pre-judged before Mazer put things in perspective for me. I wouldn’t be this frustrated as scum but you all can be the judge of that.

 

[Badger]

Im in and out of it... have a question to Foxxi to see if what I want to say is too much or not

Okay doke.

 

[Badger]

There’s also the fact if I was scum, I would want to obliterate Mazer just as much as I did our hostess here the last time I was scum and you’re still here Mazer.

 

[Badger]

70% of my posts in that scum chat as soon as I figured out who kumquat was is “GET RID OF HER NOW!”

 

[Badger]

And of course….the site owner was town , silenced and also armed and loaded.

 

[Badger]

But I digress.

Anyway Tildey out of the Claws options, what are you thinking.

 

[Badger]

Also same question to @Mazer once he’s had a chance to catch up.

 

[Badger]

Also quite keen on what more BN can say.

 

[Tildey]

Have we decided how many scum we think we’re hunting? We started with 15 people, right? So I’m thinking no more than 4 scum. But 4 scum plus a 3p/SK feels wrong (I am not an expert on game balance so someone tell me if I’m wrong). That makes me think we started with 3 scum, 1 3p, & 11 town. Which prolly means the purple character that showed up out of nowhere didn’t mean anything. If that’s correct, then with MTRs flip we are still looking for 2 scum and a 3p. Right?

 

[Mazer]

Also same question to @Mazer once he’s had a chance to catch up.

Is the question what do I think out of the people claws saw?

 

[Tildey]

If we go by my theory that Insaner was a scum kill then we have to decide if Listo was a 3p kill and that person is one of the people Claws saw or if we think there some hidden trigger from N1 that resulted in his death. I know I brought up the hidden trigger possibility but I have about convinced myself that’s just tinfoil and the most straightforward explanation is probably the correct one and he was killed by the 3rd party.

 

[Badger]

Is the question what do I think out of the people claws saw?

Yes.

 

[Tildey]

And if we’re thinking 3p kill for Listo then I’m thinking when we check the ISO’s we’re not necessarily looking for evidence of being teamed, we’re looking more for someone creating confusion and/or inconsistency. (open to confirmation from more experienced “readers” on this - I’m flying blind with no spreadsheet this game)

 

[Tildey]

All of the above “thinking out loud” exercise is to say that I want to check some ISOs from the people on Claws’ list before I answer your question @Badger. But I also wanted to clarify my thought processes before starting that project.

 

[Badger]

All of the above “thinking out loud” exercise is to say that I want to check some ISOs from the people on Claws’ list before I answer your question @Badger. But I also wanted to clarify my thought processes before starting that project.

That’s fine.

 

[Mazer]

Yes.

I went back through my thoughts.

I can't think of a reason that future is not in the worst spot. His answer today, while plausible, came after today, we theorized strongman, etc. His original defense was that he had no defense and it branched out only after he was in thread.

Blind ninja is also in my POE. His record is poor. The advantage over future is that he's either played his meta or explained before (the mtr vote he was good with mtr, but advised waiting to finish quests). That could be all fluff, but that and mtr's blatant pattern are his advantage over future.

I read you town, and currently think you were probably trying to help.

 

[Badger]

Thank you.

 

[Badger]

I’m also a bit curious why BN didn’t give a straight answer to whether his action was successful or not. Curious on that response too.

 

[Badger]

If I’m wrong, I’m definitely willing to thunderdome with Badger the next day

If that match happens, then it will be streamed live on WWE Network/Peacock. Might not just be the RKO this time but maybe another weapon in Orton’s arsenal.

 

[Badger]

Buuut at least he has moxie!

 

[Badger]

@Mazer you’re in charge of planning how the match should go plus merchandise sales.

 

[Badger]

Unless you want to be special guest refereeeeeee.

You get back to me.

 

[Tildey]

Alright, @Badger, here’s my thoughts on Claws’ list.

Claws - I’ve been townreading him, I’m still townreading him. Plus, I don’t think scum Claws would come in the way he did with his info.

Future - Lean town. I feel like scum Future wouldn’t have come back to continue defending himself last night. Pressured scum Future freezes typically and at best switches to complete shitposting. The fact that he was still engaging at all in active discussion and defending himself makes me think town. He was also the first of BN/Badger/Future to volunteer that his action was not successful.

Badger - I’m not completely sold on you but I like that you have been the most consistent poster and that even now you are trying to engage with everyone in an otherwise dead thread. No signs of you trying to lay low.

Blind Ninja - of these 4 options the most Sus to me. I dislike that he keeps circling back to tinfoiling Claws as 3p - it just feels like a distraction technique to me. And I dislike his stance that I didn’t weigh in on MTR last phase when the ISO shows that to be untrue.

Vote: Blind Ninja

 

[ForgottenHold]

Four....1. Claws, 2. Blind Ninja, 3. You, 4. Future

I don't know if the order is important, but that's the order that he gave them.

Order of visits do matter. The fact that BN is first does make him very sus. Especially if this was a strongman like theorized. The next sus position would be me. But if Badger and I’s actions failed, it could be assumed that Listo died before our actions

 

[Mazer]

But it would also be weird that we all visited Listo and somehow our actions failed

@Badger

How do you read this?

Same question to blind ninja.


Probably also tildey at this point

 

[Mazer]

Order of visits do matter. The fact that BN is first does make him very sus. Especially if this was a strongman like theorized. The next sus position would be me. But if Badger and I’s actions failed, it could be assumed that Listo died before our actions

Do we know the order of visits?

 

[Badger]

@Badger

How do you read this?

Same question to blind ninja.


Probably also tildey at this point

Hmmm “it would all be weird.”

I can’t say I’m a huge fan of it. It’s almost like he’s trying to cover up why there may be more than one failed action but may be reading that wrong. Tildey seems high on him and interested to what BN has to say

 

[ForgottenHold]

Do we know the order of visits?

I believe Claws mentioned the order of visits earlier. Calling him 1/4, BN 2/4, Badger 3/4 and me 4/4

 

[Badger]

EVWOP “would also be weird”

 

[Badger]

Also not to mention what is Claws’s take right now which is also important.

 

[ForgottenHold]

Hmmm “it would all be weird.”

I can’t say I’m a huge fan of it. It’s almost like he’s trying to cover up why there may be more than one failed action but may be reading that wrong. Tildey seems high on him and interested to what BN has to say

The only way I see that we are all town is if Listo was poisoned or if scum visited Listo before Claws

While we entertained the first idea, the second idea is stupid and speculative. More than likely one of us is scum and I believe it’s BN

 

[Badger]

@Badger

How do you read this?

Same question to blind ninja.


Probably also tildey at this point

Oh and should also return the question to you and ask for your interpretation.

 

[ForgottenHold]

There is also the idea that 2 scum visited but that’s also out there. But I wanted to mention it first

 

[Badger]

@Dreyski @Xanjori

What’s your guys take as well?

 

[Mazer]

I believe Claws mentioned the order of visits earlier. Calling him 1/4, BN 2/4, Badger 3/4 and me 4/4

I usually don't give order as info. And I'm not 100 that it's how the write ups are working. But obviously the write ups as info.

Maybe claws can clarify. Unless you are feeling confident.

 

[Mazer]

@Dreyski @Xanjori

What’s your guys take as well?

I'd love to get from blind ninja and tildey before I give mine.

There's a trend between this and another point that I want to make sure isn't only in my head.

The answer seems so obvious that I'm not sure if I'm getting blinders or seeing deflection.

 

[Mazer]

@Badger, but I'm thinking we may be aligned. It's a gift we sometimes have.

 

[Badger]

I’ll also vouch in that I’ve never run a game where that kind of role where order of visits was important. Maybe there’s a modifier or something that Claws may or may not be able to clarify.

 

[Badger]

@Badger, but I'm thinking we may be aligned. It's a gift we sometimes have.

Indeed.

 

[Badger]

I'd love to get from blind ninja and tildey before I give mine.

There's a trend between this and another point that I want to make sure isn't only in my head.

The answer seems so obvious that I'm not sure if I'm getting blinders or seeing deflection.

Understandable that you want to wait on BN and Tildey.

 

[ForgottenHold]

I’ll also vouch in that I’ve never run a game where that kind of role where order of visits was important. Maybe there’s a modifier or something that Claws may or may not be able to clarify.

I think when I was watcher I wasn’t given an order.

But I know sometimes order of visits do matter when multiple people target

 

[Badger]

I think when I was watcher I wasn’t given an order.

But I know sometimes order of visits do matter when multiple people target

In a way yes order of actions is important when writing up the order as a mod for example. As far as I understand, Claws can only see all who visited making it trickier to determine the actions/make a guess but maybe he can clarify.

 

[ForgottenHold]

In a way yes order of actions is important when writing up the order as a mod for example. As far as I understand, Claws can only see all who visited making it trickier to determine the actions/make a guess but maybe he can clarify.

True. I also think that my unusual way of saying things and wording isn’t super AI of me.

What I think is more telling is BN’s aversions to answering the questions you asked.

And the questions I asked too. But more so you because most of us think you are the towniest of the Listo visiting crew

 

[Tildey]

@Badger

How do you read this?

Same question to blind ninja.


Probably also tildey at this point

I read this as a continuation of the thought process of the post immediately preceding it.

It would be weird if we were all town especially because I tried to argue last game that the neighborhood was all town

But it would also be weird that we all visited Listo and somehow our actions failed

When read together (as if they were one post), I took it to mean that both scenarios were unlikely therefore at least one of the four had to be scum and that if all three wound claiming their actions failed that it would be “weird” (implying in my mind that somebody was lying). I believe this was right after both Future and Badger had said their actions were unsuccessful and they were speculating on what BN might have to say.

 

[Tildey]

Do we know the order of visits?

He was quoting me but I think he misunderstood my post. I was trying to be clear that I was listing the visitors in the order that Claws gave them but that I didn’t know if the order Claws used was relevant (in my head the rest of that thought was “to Claws” but I understand why it was read differently).

 

[Badger]

BN’s testimony is definitely crucial here.

 

[Badger]

I also agree that that likely was a continuation of his thought process but still we’ll see. Will wait for BN

 

[Tildey]

@Badger and @Mazer while we’re waiting, thoughts on my earlier musings regarding how many bad guys we’re hunting?

 

[ForgottenHold]

He was quoting me but I think he misunderstood my post. I was trying to be clear that I was listing the visitors in the order that Claws gave them but that I didn’t know if the order Claws used was relevant (in my head the rest of that thought was “to Claws” but I understand why it was read differently).

I definitely could have. Was a bit tunnel visioned. I’m gonna strike the visit order argument and focus on my other arguments more

 

[Badger]

@Badger and @Mazer while we’re waiting, thoughts on my earlier musings regarding how many bad guys we’re hunting?

Have we decided how many scum we think we’re hunting? We started with 15 people, right? So I’m thinking no more than 4 scum. But 4 scum plus a 3p/SK feels wrong (I am not an expert on game balance so someone tell me if I’m wrong). That makes me think we started with 3 scum, 1 3p, & 11 town. Which prolly means the purple character that showed up out of nowhere didn’t mean anything. If that’s correct, then with MTRs flip we are still looking for 2 scum and a 3p. Right?

This post here @Tildey?

I also believe we are hunting for 2 scum and a 3p.

 

[Tildey]

This post here @Tildey?

I also believe we are hunting for 2 scum and a 3p.

That’s the one

 

[Badger]

4 scum would seem way too many.

There is no doubt some trickery too though. Bastard mod and all that. That purple “Zara” character you pointed out for example. Still not sure what that’s about.

 

[Badger]

That’s the one

Cheers.

Yeah agreed.

 

[Blind Ninja]

Also quite keen on what more BN can say.

I assume my action was successful as I didnt get told it failed. Ive given what I could and know at least 1 could act.

 

[Badger]

I assume my action was successful as I didnt get told it failed. Ive given what I could and know at least 1 could act.

Okay.

Will chew this over some more.

 

[Blind Ninja]

Order of visits do matter. The fact that BN is first does make him very sus. Especially if this was a strongman like theorized. The next sus position would be me. But if Badger and I’s actions failed, it could be assumed that Listo died before our actions

Order matters if we know what Night is doing for action resolution. And if it is a strongman, it wouldnt mater if that was the 1st or the last to visit, as it would go through any protections that existed. We dont know IF claws gave us the order we were seen in, or just listed the 4 people seen. Also dont know if Night gave Claws the order people came in. Its all speculative.

@Badger

How do you read this?

Same question to blind ninja.


Probably also tildey at this point

I wasnt told my action failed, but have also mentioned that I dont have any ability to kill. Ive been trying to help people

True. I also think that my unusual way of saying things and wording isn’t super AI of me.

What I think is more telling is BN’s aversions to answering the questions you asked.

And the questions I asked too. But more so you because most of us think you are the towniest of the Listo visiting crew

Paint me some more... Not averse to answering his question, wanted clarification from the mod so I wouldnt get killed. Since I thought my answer potentially toed the line, wanted to make sure it was good before putting it in thread.

 

[Badger]

I’ll have a think about it. Meanwhile I hand the microphone to @Mazer now that everyone has answered.

 

[Blind Ninja]

I think Tildey was on to something when she went back and looked at the the writeup.

Definitely looks like Insaner was the mafia target.

Had insaner been poisoned, which usually takes a phase or 2, he likely would have been notified and at least said something in thread.

Someone theorized maybe his action resulted in his death. Other then a Bomb or PGO, anything else people could thing of for death based on ones own action?

 

[Blind Ninja]

Vote: Future

Going to put my money where my mouth is...

 

[ForgottenHold]

Vote: Future

Going to put my money where my mouth is...

I appreciate that

 

[Xanjori]

@Dreyski @Xanjori

What’s your guys take as well?

Im leaning towards a BN vote, but still reading

 

[Mazer]

@Badger and @Mazer while we’re waiting, thoughts on my earlier musings regarding how many bad guys we’re hunting?

I've never talked to.foxxi about it. But she and void talk. Role madness was typically assumed to be about a 30% non town ratio in our conversations.

You could be right, but ive been defaulting to standard practices. Because I think to assume the most friendly ratio is to invite overconfidence.

 

[Mazer]

He was quoting me but I think he misunderstood my post. I was trying to be clear that I was listing the visitors in the order that Claws gave them but that I didn’t know if the order Claws used was relevant (in my head the rest of that thought was “to Claws” but I understand why it was read differently).

I guess that's an interesting perspective.

 

[Mazer]

I’ll have a think about it. Meanwhile I hand the microphone to @Mazer now that everyone has answered.

It reads as tmi. We've played dozens of games now, and I've never seen someone read order of operations read into a watcher target.

Future came in with "we all failed" and had a specific interpretation.

I'm also a little thrown off that tildey seemed amenable to my read that mtr had an agenda, but is now explaining future's post readings for him and hard defense.

I'm also not sold thar we have a total of 4 out of 15 as non town. Foxxi is obsessive with planning. And while I can't rule out the possibility that it's right, it would be in contrast to all the discussions on game building, particularly if the 3rd party has a kill action.

Basically, I feel like we're being irresponsible loose. Like void in Ghostbusters refusing to take the highest shot until I had to beg him as a stump.


If future is dirty, it's not a good look for tildey. If he's clean, maybe the ratio is lower, and blind ninja is likely next up.

 

[Badger]

It reads as tmi. We've played dozens of games now, and I've never seen someone read order of operations read into a watcher target.

Future came in with "we all failed" and had a specific interpretation.

I'm also a little thrown off that tildey seemed amenable to my read that mtr had an agenda, but is now explaining future's post readings for him and hard defense.

I'm also not sold thar we have a total of 4 out of 15 as non town. Foxxi is obsessive with planning. And while I can't rule out the possibility that it's right, it would be in contrast to all the discussions on game building, particularly if the 3rd party has a kill action.

Basically, I feel like we're being irresponsible loose. Like void in Ghostbusters refusing to take the highest shot until I had to beg him as a stump.


If future is dirty, it's not a good look for tildey. If he's clean, maybe the ratio is lower, and blind ninja is likely next up.

I love the Ghostbusters reference!

But yeah thanks.

 

[Badger]

Yeah it’s a tricky one. There was a Zera character mentioned at some point that could throw things off. And yeah she is meticulous absolutely.

 

[ForgottenHold]

It reads as tmi. We've played dozens of games now, and I've never seen someone read order of operations read into a watcher target.

Future came in with "we all failed" and had a specific interpretation.

I'm also a little thrown off that tildey seemed amenable to my read that mtr had an agenda, but is now explaining future's post readings for him and hard defense.

I'm also not sold thar we have a total of 4 out of 15 as non town. Foxxi is obsessive with planning. And while I can't rule out the possibility that it's right, it would be in contrast to all the discussions on game building, particularly if the 3rd party has a kill action.

Basically, I feel like we're being irresponsible loose. Like void in Ghostbusters refusing to take the highest shot until I had to beg him as a stump.


If future is dirty, it's not a good look for tildey. If he's clean, maybe the ratio is lower, and blind ninja is likely next up.

If I’m clean then you’ll be handing scum the win.

I’m not too keen on Tildey’s interpretation of scum left. Scum wants to mislynch and I’m damn near tired of always being the mislynch go to

 

[ForgottenHold]

I have to go all out every time and even then it’s never enough

 

[ForgottenHold]

I think BN has more red flags than I do

 

[Claws]

I usually don't give order as info. And I'm not 100 that it's how the write ups are working. But obviously the write ups as info.

Maybe claws can clarify. Unless you are feeling confident.

There was no order

 

[Badger]

I think it also kinda depends on how one interprets BN’s answer to my question. He did take some time and was the last of us to say whether our actions are successful? Is BN telling the truth? If his action is successful like he says it is, what do we think it might be? Did he have to say this because Future as well as myself claimed our actions weren’t successful so having three might sound odd. Is Future lying and been taking secret lessons at the kangus Scum Academy (it’s a good course, I recommend it) and pulling the wool over our eyes?

 

[Badger]

There was no order

Thanks Claws.

 

[Claws]

I just had the longest cat nap

 

[Mazer]

I think BN has more red flags than I do

Fair enough. So, you think tildey is wrong about amount?

I've listed out what I see as problematic on you and blind ninja from all the votes and like 72 hours of all mtr's posts. I've been very transparent on why I'm concerned with what seems to be right in front of me.

Did I miss red flags ?

 

[ForgottenHold]

I think you’re looking for something that isn’t there by digging up MTR’s grave. MTR and I when we are scum or cornered will just parrot other people’s reads because we can’t come up with our own. MTR was trying to look towny by defending what was considered a popular town read. Theres nothing more to it

Fair enough. So, you think tildey is wrong about amount?

I've listed out what I see as problematic on you and blind ninja from all the votes and like 72 hours of all mtr's posts. I've been very transparent on why I'm concerned with what seems to be right in front of me.

Did I miss red flags ?

 

[ForgottenHold]

As for Tildey’s count? I think I’m wrong, my math doesn’t work anymore

 

[Blind Ninja]

I think it also kinda depends on how one interprets BN’s answer to my question. He did take some time and was the last of us to say whether our actions are successful? Is BN telling the truth? If his action is successful like he says it is, what do we think it might be? Did he have to say this because Future as well as myself claimed our actions weren’t successful so having three might sound odd. Is Future lying and been taking secret lessons at the kangus Scum Academy (it’s a good course, I recommend it) and pulling the wool over our eyes?

Was something free of cost to you?

 

[Tildey]

I just had the longest cat nap

I guess with MTR dead someone has to take over his his nap responsibilities.

 

[Badger]

Was something free of cost to you?

Yeah kangus got us free scholarships and scum lessons lol

 

[Badger]

Mazer would also recommend the course.

JP University is another institution.

 

[Badger]

I guess with MTR dead someone has to take over his his nap responsibilities.

Okay no matter Tildey’s alignment…THIS is a keeper!!

 

[Mazer]

I think you’re looking for something that isn’t there by digging up MTR’s grave. MTR and I when we are scum or cornered will just parrot other people’s reads because we can’t come up with our own. MTR was trying to look towny by defending what was considered a popular town read. Theres nothing more to it

The "digging up mtr's grave" bothers me. I should ignore what a dead scum says?

Particularly when he was still trying to live.

I dunno man.

 

[Mazer]

Mazer would also recommend the course.

JP University is another institution.

Definitely not free either

 

[Tildey]

I'm also a little thrown off that tildey seemed amenable to my read that mtr had an agenda, but is now explaining future's post readings for him and hard defense.

You specifically asked me my thoughts on a specific post and I gave it. I hardly think that’s the same thing as MTR trying to clear Future and then pairing the two of them together.

I'm also not sold thar we have a total of 4 out of 15 as non town. Foxxi is obsessive with planning. And while I can't rule out the possibility that it's right, it would be in contrast to all the discussions on game building, particularly if the 3rd party has a kill action.

I was pretty clear that I am open to calculations from more experienced players since I’ve never modded. But I was using the 30% guide I’d seen them talk about, fwiw. That’s why I was debating between 3 scum/1 SK or 4 scum/1 SK. 30% of 15 is 4.5. Rounding down is 4 hostile to town, rounding up is 5 hostile to town.

 

[Claws]

I guess with MTR dead someone has to take over his his nap responsibilities.

I dont generally nap i slept from 1am to 3pm today

 

[Badger]

MTR vs Claws….Nap-off!!!

Coming soon to a bedroom or couch (venue tbd) and on ESPN.

 

[Tildey]

I dont generally nap i slept from 1am to 3pm today

That is impressive. I can usually only pull something like that off if I’m sick.

 

[Badger]

12 hours is impressive though. I’m lucky if I get 7 a night to be honest.

 

[Badger]

Definitely not free either

Yeah JP University especially. Still paying off my student loans from my time there.

 

[Tildey]

12 hours is impressive though. I’m lucky if I get 7 a night to be honest.

Oh man, what I would do for 7 consecutive hours of sleep. I can’t remember the last time I got that.

 

[Badger]

Oh man, what I would do for 7 consecutive hours of sleep. I can’t remember the last time I got that.

I must stress if I’m lucky because some nights I only get 4-5. Noisy city centre flat and pigeons/seagulls outside my bedroom window.

 

[Badger]

I was gonna insert Future as a triple threat into the MTR/Claws nap-off but he’s too awake now.

 

[Badger]

 

[Badger]

Now he can nap!

You saw it coming and it still works! XD