Fingers of Suspicion

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Vanillatown 2: Revenge is a Dish Best Served Kosher (Mafia 3)

WindwardAway

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In my exsperience caito doesnt tend to live long except the one game caito saves xmas we had so i think jumping on him to think hes gunna not be lynched is a silly move which still makes me feel peter is likely town ive never seen a big brain play where peter would bus this early
Oh really lol
OK then, that's a point in Peter's favor
 

WindwardAway

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If lynching me is gunna help clear up your thread feel free but im just claws vt town dont surprise pikachu face when i flip blue
You keep saying things about flipping blue, like "if MTR flips blue go after Jarrod" and now that you'll flip blue.

If you flip blue, then we have a major problem, because the town color is *not* blue. If you picked that up from the flavor text when Caito flipped and MTR did not, then congrats, you TMI'd MTR as town and yourself as scum.

...I'm keeping my vote on you.
 

VoidKitten

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You keep saying things about flipping blue, like "if MTR flips blue go after Jarrod" and now that you'll flip blue.

If you flip blue, then we have a major problem, because the town color is *not* blue. If you picked that up from the flavor text when Caito flipped and MTR did not, then congrats, you TMI'd MTR as town and yourself as scum.

...I'm keeping my vote on you.
Not that I feel like defending Claws, but two of the most recent games had blue as the town color. It doesn't clear him because maybe actual town would know their own color and he is just grabbing from memory?

Or it was just blue/green interchangeably.
 

VoidKitten

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Do you all really think it is uncommon for scum to toss an initial vote on a partner? I do it all the damn time. I will gladly be a first vote on a scum buddy.

Sucks if they get yeeted, but it sets me up oh so well.
 

Claws

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Why are you focusing on someone who isn't really around instead of some of the people who are posting? Or do you think everyone who is actively posting is town?
There more town then the non posters ldg threatening me was interesting
 

PsychoSoldier

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2 - Claws (WindwardAway, VoidKitten)
1 - Sleep (Matthieu)
1 - FutureHold (Claws)

Not Voting: Jarrod1983, Mazer, FutureHold, MTR, Peter Griffin, Kareemah, LemonDemonGirl, Val the Moofia Boss
 

MTR

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As people know I am not against going after inactives but I also want to see how Psycho handles them. I am trying to focus more on the active people at this point and see where that gets me.

I don't have solid reads yet.

Leaning scum on claws but again I may be biased on that as I have admitted.

Leaning town on Jarrod for now and also Windward and Void.

Not sure what to think about others just yet.
 

Mazer

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VoidKitten, is your favorite role vanilla townie?

The whole game may hinge on this answer.

suspense GIF
 

WindwardAway

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Not that I feel like defending Claws, but two of the most recent games had blue as the town color. It doesn't clear him because maybe actual town would know their own color and he is just grabbing from memory?

Or it was just blue/green interchangeably.
"maybe actual town would know their own color" is exactly my point. I'm town and I know my color is NOT blue. I assumed blue was used as a neutral indicator in the flavor text for the D1 lynch rand so as not to give away MTR's alignment. That's why I'm hung up on this.
 

MTR

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Blue is going to be the color for our character while green and red will be used for alignment.
 

Claws

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"maybe actual town would know their own color" is exactly my point. I'm town and I know my color is NOT blue. I assumed blue was used as a neutral indicator in the flavor text for the D1 lynch rand so as not to give away MTR's alignment. That's why I'm hung up on this.
Im sorry you assumed i read the rules or flavor pretty bold of you i just read my rolecard thats all i need
 

Claws

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Idk every few games town bloody changes from green to blue or vice versa and it is confusing
 

VoidKitten

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"maybe actual town would know their own color" is exactly my point. I'm town and I know my color is NOT blue. I assumed blue was used as a neutral indicator in the flavor text for the D1 lynch rand so as not to give away MTR's alignment. That's why I'm hung up on this.
I get being hung up on it. I see exactly where you are coming from. I just know that we have used blue/green interchangeably so I can understand how it would be a mistake.

That being said, I am leaving my vote on Claws. He knows we joke about the Claws rule (If Claws seems scummy, hes probably town and vice versa). He seems overly scummy which is what makes me hesitate, but the scumminess manifests itself differently. He is picking easy to poke at things that even he has done.

I am willing to entertain other ideas. But I haven't seen any major reasons why for some people. Give me reasons why and I will gladly look at others.
 

VoidKitten

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Today we go for who we feel the best shot at being scum is. Not looking for someone just on the basis of inactivity, unless you want to say that the inactivity makes them scum. Tomorrow will decide our strategy in the next days.

If we misyeet today another town will die. That will put us into Day 3 with 8 town and 2 scum.

The gun should be fired earlier rather than later (or at least equal time) for two reasons. 1) More time to discuss the aftermath of the gun and 2) If Psycho does not reset the votes, it can drop majority down and cause an immediate yeet depending on where votes lie.

Ideally the gun is aimed at someone who we think is sus or someone who is inactive to try and clear that person.

That would either leave us at 8/1 or put us to 6/2 with time left to still yeet (assuming we shoot earlier).

If it puts us at 8/1, we get 3 misyeets and can narrow it down and can risk going after an inactive if we think the final scum is an inactive.

If we get down to 6/2, it becomes a significantly closer game. We will end up with only 1 misyeet and a sleep before it drops down to the final 5.

All in all, an inactive is a terrible choice today and we should go after who we think is most likely scum and why. If inactivity is a reason, tell me why this is any different.
 

PsychoSoldier

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2 - Claws (WindwardAway, VoidKitten)
1 - FutureHold (Claws)
1 - Kareemah (Matthieu)

Not Voting: Jarrod1983, Mazer, FutureHold, MTR, Peter Griffin, Kareemah, LemonDemonGirl, Val the Moofia Boss
 

Mazer

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Let's do a hypothetical. Let's see we had 50/50 read on at least one scum after we got Caito. And scum knew it.


You would expect them to have 1 of 2 most probable responses. I see a 3rd as semi-probable if there is an inactive scum.
 

VoidKitten

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Let's do a hypothetical. Let's see we had 50/50 read on at least one scum after we got Caito. And scum knew it.


You would expect them to have 1 of 2 most probable responses. I see a 3rd as semi-probable if there is an inactive scum.
Do you think that is why CWE was chosen? Based on who he was silently postulating as a scum suspect?
 

VoidKitten

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Not necessarily, though I don't have any strong reads on anyone other than Claws at the moment and people don't want me voting to sleep so...
And you think Claws is just being run up? Can you touch on that some more? What about him makes you think more towny than scummy, if ya don't mind.
 

Matthieu

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And you think Claws is just being run up? Can you touch on that some more? What about him makes you think more towny than scummy, if ya don't mind.
The main things that stand out to me.

The first and most irrelevant is that I was partnered with him during the previous game as a pair of masons, so there's some lingering bias there admittedly.

The second reason is that it usually takes a few day phases to truly get a proper read on someone like Claws. He's often read into as 'scummy' but it actually isn't the case as often as people seem to believe it to be.

The third reason is that I didn't necessarily like how the day phase started with a vote on Claws almost immediately. I'm giving Windward a pass since I haven't played with them before to my knowledge and I do think it's coming from the direction of not being familiar with Claws.
 

VoidKitten

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The main things that stand out to me.

The first and most irrelevant is that I was partnered with him during the previous game as a pair of masons, so there's some lingering bias there admittedly.

The second reason is that it usually takes a few day phases to truly get a proper read on someone like Claws. He's often read into as 'scummy' but it actually isn't the case as often as people seem to believe it to be.

The third reason is that I didn't necessarily like how the day phase started with a vote on Claws almost immediately. I'm giving Windward a pass since I haven't played with them before to my knowledge and I do think it's coming from the direction of not being familiar with Claws.
So does that mean I am scum yet? You said Winward has a pass, but I was the only other vote so am I suspicious? If so why Kareemah and not me?

Forget Windward or I voting on Claws, how do you feel about his posts and reactions to the votes?
 

MTR

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I already said what I think of Winward. He is on my town list at the moment. He seems like he is trying to solve and read people and help town out. First time playing with him so just kind of going on gut at the moment.
 

Matthieu

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So does that mean I am scum yet? You said Winward has a pass, but I was the only other vote so am I suspicious? If so why Kareemah and not me?

Forget Windward or I voting on Claws, how do you feel about his posts and reactions to the votes?

As I said, I have no strong reads other than towards Claws. Which I why I proposed earlier this day phase taking me out instead of Claws - he did pretty well after I was killed during the previous game and is more likely than I am to be able to contribute more effectively to a game such as this.
 

Mazer

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Do you think that is why CWE was chosen? Based on who he was silently postulating as a scum suspect?
CWE is always dangerous. And he may be the hardest person to get a false lynch on. It's nigh impossible. It also tells me that it someone who didn't care that he died early last game.

There's also the possibility that Caito just asked his team to kill CWE in retribution, and since it is a sensible kill, that they honored his request.

But certainly I think his reads were pretty good, and that made it more likely.
 

Mazer

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@Jarrod1983 How do you feel about Mazer?
@Claws How do you feel about Mazer?
@Mazer How do you feel about Matthieu?
@LemonDemonGirl How do you feel about MTR?
@MTR How do you feel about Windward?
@WindwardAway How do you feel about MTR?
Mattheu meme voted. And then was silent. Which I don't abhor, but I needed to make sure didn't take off. As one of Rajah's foremost ND1L crew, I wanted to send a strong message. And lo and behold, at that point, the votes for MTR came on. His reasoning there, admittedly was in retaliation. Which seemed less relevant until I came on, but was still directed at mtr, who has been on quite a scum run, and has been easy to get heat on.

Today, he has pulled away from claws with the rationale that it's too soon to get a read, but has pulled for inactives. Which is not indefensible, but seems like a low probability shot that would probability wise be more likely to hit a good guy. And ignores that Psycho seems to be proactive on warnings

So....I don't love it.

If I was applying a movie to claws and mattheu right now, it would be Tombstone.



kruithne-tombstone.gif


I feel like my odds would be good on a good kill.
 

MTR

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Mattheu meme voted. And then was silent. Which I don't abhor, but I needed to make sure didn't take off. As one of Rajah's foremost ND1L crew, I wanted to send a strong message. And lo and behold, at that point, the votes for MTR came on. His reasoning there, admittedly was in retaliation. Which seemed less relevant until I came on, but was still directed at mtr, who has been on quite a scum run, and has been easy to get heat on.

Today, he has pulled away from claws with the rationale that it's too soon to get a read, but has pulled for inactives. Which is not indefensible, but seems like a low probability shot that would probability wise be more likely to hit a good guy. And ignores that Psycho seems to be proactive on warnings

So....I don't love it.

If I was applying a movie to claws and mattheu right now, it would be Tombstone.



kruithne-tombstone.gif


I feel like my odds would be good on a good kill.
I like this logic.
 

VoidKitten

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Also, I'm not sure we're thinking of the same responses.
I wasn't even considering responses at that point. I wanted to touch on CWE more.

There are a whole mess of responses however. I can think of four types of responses if there was a 50/50 sus on me depending on what alignment I was.
 

Mazer

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I already said what I think of Winward. He is on my town list at the moment. He seems like he is trying to solve and read people and help town out. First time playing with him so just kind of going on gut at the moment.
It would behoove most of us, at some point today, to get out top reads on the board. There's no nighttime protection, so day trapping has to be adjusted accordingly.
 

Mazer

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I wasn't even considering responses at that point. I wanted to touch on CWE more.

There are a whole mess of responses however. I can think of four types of responses if there was a 50/50 sus on me depending on what alignment I was.
I just think in this one, two come to mind most readily. But maybe that's just my mind. My angry and grey mind.
 

Kareemah

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Some weekends are tough. Think you can get a read through and give your takes on a few people today?
The only thing I have is
Vote: claws
If he checked his rolecard for the game, it would’ve been green, I think he messed up
 

VoidKitten

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It is town because I almost wrote that word for word in response to Grae. Kareemah was super excited to be scum and constantly posted in scum chat and made sure her posts were up in thread. I was postulating that it could mean she randed town and was absent.

I then realized I didn't need to defend her and wanted to see what Matthieu pushing Kareemah said and if Kareemah showed up what she would say. And she basically said what I was thinking.

It's town.
 

Mazer

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Voidkitten is probably town. He overexplains to jokes less when he's scum.
 

Mazer

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I haven't done a threat matrix in a long time. I might have to break that out later.
 

Kareemah

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It is town because I almost wrote that word for word in response to Grae. Kareemah was super excited to be scum and constantly posted in scum chat and made sure her posts were up in thread. I was postulating that it could mean she randed town and was absent.

I then realized I didn't need to defend her and wanted to see what Matthieu pushing Kareemah said and if Kareemah showed up what she would say. And she basically said what I was thinking.

It's town.
Not u reading me 😭🙄
 

PsychoSoldier

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3 - Claws (WindwardAway, VoidKitten, Kareemah)
1 - FutureHold (Claws)
1 - Kareemah (Matthieu)

Not Voting: Jarrod1983, Mazer, FutureHold, MTR, Peter Griffin, LemonDemonGirl, Val the Moofia Boss
 

Claws

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Ive enjoyed mazer thus far
vk not clueing the favourite thing irked me peters likely town as ive stated
im scum leaning ldg for the threat


For the record i read vt town i didnt really care about the color perhaps im color blind sue me
 

Mazer

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Ive enjoyed mazer thus far
vk not clueing the favourite thing irked me peters likely town as ive stated
im scum leaning ldg for the threat


For the record i read vt town i didnt really care about the color perhaps im color blind sue me
I'm happy to provide entertainment. I tell jokes. And do tricks with my fellow candlesticks.

If you had to rank the following as most likely scum, how would it go?

Val
Jarrod
Future
MTR
Mattheu
Claws
 

Claws

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Hmm

Future
Val
Jarrod (altho hes rising up strong d1 lack of d2)
Mtr
Grae
Claws
 

Claws

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Futures town game is more vocal this isnt the case

Val is always hard to read =/
 

VoidKitten

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Futures town game is more vocal this isnt the case

Val is always hard to read =/
Do you think Future is scum in this case or he randed town without any powers and he isnt interested? Or is he busy?

Do you think him not talking makes him more likely scum? Has he been absent/nonexistent as scum?
 

Claws

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Do you think Future is scum in this case or he randed town without any powers and he isnt interested? Or is he busy?

Do you think him not talking makes him more likely scum? Has he been absent/nonexistent as scum?
I think he randed scum and its the case every1 should know its not a rolepower game from signing up

I think hes freezing up with lack of abuility to claim anything but a vt cuz every1 a vt
 

VoidKitten

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I think he randed scum and its the case every1 should know its not a rolepower game from signing up

I think hes freezing up with lack of abuility to claim anything but a vt cuz every1 a vt
Wouldn't that make it easier being able to say you are a VT since literally everyone is a VT?

Why would that make him freeze? He doesn't claim in most Rajah games. Why does that matter now?
 

Claws

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Wouldn't that make it easier being able to say you are a VT since literally everyone is a VT?

Why would that make him freeze? He doesn't claim in most Rajah games. Why does that matter now?
I disagree i think having the only claim of vt is poor i mean i claimed it and have toned down my scummyness and yet ppl keep piling on

Ill be honest i dont know a game hes been vocal when scum...
maybe here and there but hes definitly more in the game as town been more vocal
 

Kareemah

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Do you think Future is scum in this case or he randed town without any powers and he isnt interested? Or is he busy?

Do you think him not talking makes him more likely scum? Has he been absent/nonexistent as scum?
Well future is at work rn and unlike me he doesn’t really get on his phone at work, for the past days tho idk what he’s been doing
 

VoidKitten

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I disagree i think having the only claim of vt is poor i mean i claimed it and have toned down my scummyness and yet ppl keep piling on

Ill be honest i dont know a game hes been vocal when scum...
maybe here and there but hes definitly more in the game as town been more vocal
He hasn't needed to claim though? I don't see how him only being able to claim VT would make him freeze.

I'm not arguing him not being around might be something to look at, but your reasons for him being sus, I am not understanding.

You are saying him only being able to claim VT makes him freeze up, but he has posted literally two posts and hasn't had to claim or even say anything related to his alignment.

We kill claims all the time. It depends on how much we believe it. Sure, this game can be harder in that sense since all you have to go on is your words. So why do you think you have been towny? By your own admission, you have been scummy and then toned it down but people are still sus. What was the purpose of being scummy, especially when you know what type of game this is? Why have you been towny? How are you townier than someone else?
 

Claws

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He hasn't needed to claim though? I don't see how him only being able to claim VT would make him freeze.

I'm not arguing him not being around might be something to look at, but your reasons for him being sus, I am not understanding.

You are saying him only being able to claim VT makes him freeze up, but he has posted literally two posts and hasn't had to claim or even say anything related to his alignment.

We kill claims all the time. It depends on how much we believe it. Sure, this game can be harder in that sense since all you have to go on is your words. So why do you think you have been towny? By your own admission, you have been scummy and then toned it down but people are still sus. What was the purpose of being scummy, especially when you know what type of game this is? Why have you been towny? How are you townier than someone else?
Im more pointing out the sinple fact hes not around
 

VoidKitten

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Im more pointing out the sinple fact hes not around
Okay so you want to vote him because he is inactive. Plain and simple.

So, we have Future and Kareemah with votes on them because they are inactive.

Anyone else have reasons on Future or Kareemah?

And Claws, why Future over Kareemah or Peter? And I am asking for Kareemah from before she showed up. Since you chose Future from right in the night phase.
 

Mazer

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I'm also enjoying watching claws wind up vk. If I was a more charitable man, I'd say we could end it some time.

But I still want to:
1. Make a threat matrix
2. See if some of the people who don't have multiple monitors or sneak their phones out check in
3. watch this happen, because I'm not a more charitable man
 

WindwardAway

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No reason other than it being a recurring joke.

Yes. Claws is generally more worthy of suspicion when he's quiet and/or trying to avoid drawing attention to pretty much anyone.
All right, good to know, it's worth considering I guess.
 

WindwardAway

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Not necessarily, though I don't have any strong reads on anyone other than Claws at the moment and people don't want me voting to sleep so...
But Kareemah hasn't posted at all, has she? At least I don't remember seeing anything from her unless I missed a post somewhere. Imo that just makes her a big fat nullread unless she has a really blatant wolftell of being extremely low on activity, but for most people I'd guess it's NAI unless I'm told otherwise.
 

MTR

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I will chime in to say Future was camping and is at work now but there have been times he could have posted. So beyond me basically voting him for voting me I don't have a read on him at the moment.

Kareemah is posting now and yeah what she said is what I was thinking for her as far as if she is town or not.
 

WindwardAway

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@Jarrod1983 How do you feel about Mazer?
@Claws How do you feel about Mazer?
@Mazer How do you feel about Matthieu?
@LemonDemonGirl How do you feel about MTR?
@MTR How do you feel about Windward?
@WindwardAway How do you feel about MTR?
Off of pure posting, big fat null. There was maybe *one* post from MTR that I didn't like so much, cause it looked like scum overexplaining a long absence, but on the other hand I do think they had a valid point in questioning people on their wagon. I just would've liked to see more of a push from that angle if MTR is town, since they're in the best position to solve their own wagon.

Off of wagonomics and vote progression, that MTR wagon existed for most of the day and Caito was only run up toward the end, which makes me think Caito's wagon was mostly or entirely pure, while MTR's wagon existed and scum probably didn't lift much of a finger while that was the top wagon. I kind of think the hardest pushing on MTR was probably from town doing the legwork for scum, and the later commentary and votes are more likely scum than earlier ones.
 

WindwardAway

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As I said, I have no strong reads other than towards Claws. Which I why I proposed earlier this day phase taking me out instead of Claws - he did pretty well after I was killed during the previous game and is more likely than I am to be able to contribute more effectively to a game such as this.
OK, so you're saying you'd rather keep Claws alive because he's an asset as town and you're confident in your read?
 

WindwardAway

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Mattheu meme voted. And then was silent. Which I don't abhor, but I needed to make sure didn't take off. As one of Rajah's foremost ND1L crew, I wanted to send a strong message. And lo and behold, at that point, the votes for MTR came on. His reasoning there, admittedly was in retaliation. Which seemed less relevant until I came on, but was still directed at mtr, who has been on quite a scum run, and has been easy to get heat on.

Today, he has pulled away from claws with the rationale that it's too soon to get a read, but has pulled for inactives. Which is not indefensible, but seems like a low probability shot that would probability wise be more likely to hit a good guy. And ignores that Psycho seems to be proactive on warnings

So....I don't love it.

If I was applying a movie to claws and mattheu right now, it would be Tombstone.



kruithne-tombstone.gif


I feel like my odds would be good on a good kill.
Ftr I can totally agree with this
I do have some doubt that I just have no clue how to read claws because I have no experience with him, but same goes for everyone in this game, I think. I can't dismiss myself from attempting to read people off of lack of prior experience, so I'm giving it a shot anyway, the way I know how.
 

WindwardAway

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Or idk, maybe that's a bit preemptive since I went back and forth with Claws over it several times so it's public knowledge now, and it's scum knowledge if he's scum and warned his partners, but hey, I'll take it if it means another vote on Claws for now.
 

WindwardAway

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It is town because I almost wrote that word for word in response to Grae. Kareemah was super excited to be scum and constantly posted in scum chat and made sure her posts were up in thread. I was postulating that it could mean she randed town and was absent.

I then realized I didn't need to defend her and wanted to see what Matthieu pushing Kareemah said and if Kareemah showed up what she would say. And she basically said what I was thinking.

It's town.
That's good enough reasoning for me, I think
 

WindwardAway

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Voidkitten is probably town. He overexplains to jokes less when he's scum.
I'm comfortable with this read
I had his slot as town off of the vote progression yesterday since his slot tied the MTR and Caito wagons, putting Caito up for the lynch rand. There's almost no way scum makes that move when they can just be absent and let MTR flip.
 
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