Fingers of Suspicion

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rock meets hard place

Kitten Herder
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th.jpg



  1. Phases will be 72/24.
  2. You MUST post at least once (with game-advancing content, this is subjective) every 33 hours. Failure to post will result in a prod. Once you have been prodded 3 times you will receive some type of punishment whether that will be a replacement, a modkill or something else. I rather not have to worry too much about this so just please be active. please.
  3. lynches are majority only
  4. No editing or deleting your posts.
  5. do not discuss this game outside of the game thread.
  6. remember the golden rule
  7. have fun


You are a vanilla townie. Your two weapons are your voice and your vote. Use them wisely.
You win when all threats to the town have been vanquished.


Player List
1. Nightingale town neighbor
2. Claws
3. CWE town tracker
4. Satsu town watcher
5. PsychoSoldier mafia joat
6. MTR town bodyguard
7. Dreyski mafia 1x bulletproof traitor
8. Val the Moofia Boss
9. Listo95
10. 3puppies
11. DivaSmurf
12. LemonDemonGirl Miller
13. Mazer
14. Blind Ninja
15. ForgottenHoldmafia neighbor
 
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rock meets hard place

Kitten Herder
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All rolecards have been sent out. Please comfirm your role in your private threads. This game will begin when 12 players have confirmed.
 

rock meets hard place

Kitten Herder
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It was cold. Bitterly cold. Rock pulled up the collar on his trench coat in a vain attempt to eke out a little more warmth. Normally he wouldn't be out in this kind of weather but he had to take advantage of this rare opportunity. Suddenly he froze.

He thought he had heard footsteps but maybe it was just the wind or the groan of an old building as he passed. He took the time to scan his surroundings but saw nothing out of the ordinary, just rows of parked cars and the occasional piece of trash blown by the wind.

But just then he heard it again. He was certainly not alone. As he quickened up his pace he hoped to ditch his tail so he could complete his task. Almost at a jog now Rock took a side street. Big mistake.

He was stuck between a wall and the goon behind him. He really had met a hard place.

Seeing his predicament, he spun around and clocked the goon with a haymaker sending him sprawling. Thinking that the goon was down he tried to make a break for it but the goon grabbed his leg sending Rock face first into the cold hard pavement. A trickle of blood.

Both men got to their feet. Rock wiped the blood from the corner of his mouth and lunged. They both exchanged blows until Rock got the upper hand by tackling his opponent. He began to pummel. Just then he felt it, a hard thud to the back of his head and Rock rolled over onto his back.

A flash of understanding appeared on Rocks dazed face. There had been a second in waiting.

"You!", he snarled.

With a grin, the second pulled out his chrome piece.

Rock meets hard place- town hated super g.o.a.t has been shot through the heart (and you're to blame) night 0


Day 1 begins now. With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.

deadline counter
 

Blind Ninja

Godfather
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In an attempt to keep the game active, I say we vote off someone that regularly has low participation...
 

Foxxi

Administrator
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Let's just pretend I said some kind of long-winded speech about the virtues of Day 1

That was inspiring wasn't it?
No?
Fine then.
Vote: Sleep
 

Claws

Mastermind
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Jan 9, 2023
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Oh it said Goat
Yes
Tongue Goat GIF


not greatest of all time dont mix it up
 

Mazer

Spirit Breaker
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Voting off low activity people D1

Lazy... just lazy
We could talk about voting off low activity people d1. We could talk about whether you'll provide multiple options, or if you have one distinct preferred option. We could talk about whether its acceptable to talk about the pointless futility of low effort pushes.

We could talk about any expectations of Rock as a gamerunner.

Because it's hard to finish without knowing where you're starting.
 

Blind Ninja

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We could talk about voting off low activity people d1. We could talk about whether you'll provide multiple options, or if you have one distinct preferred option. We could talk about whether its acceptable to talk about the pointless futility of low effort pushes.

We could talk about any expectations of Rock as a gamerunner.

Because it's hard to finish without knowing where you're starting.
More putting it as a thought early in the phase... so we can look through the phase and see if people are putting forth the effort. There are some that are typically lower activity that FH has mentions (FH/Val), but I would rather do it from this game and not based on what people have done in the past.

As far as expectation from the game runner... trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Nothing to base it against. Hard to compare him to any of or normal/typical runner, since you all do things in a ddifferent manner.
 

VoidKitten

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oh hai. I will be so intermittent for the next 72-96 hours. I am being taught how to speak publicly at this meeting im at lmao. Like I have any issue talking to people.
 

Claws

Mastermind
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oh hai. I will be so intermittent for the next 72-96 hours. I am being taught how to speak publicly at this meeting im at lmao. Like I have any issue talking to people.
More like a how not to lie to ppl seminar
 

Mazer

Spirit Breaker
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Vote: mazer

All this talk is sickening
Claws, you've talked about people being sick. As if you are a veritable panacea of mafia health. But understand this, if your ancestors could talk.....they'd be sickened with disappointment right now.
 
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Claws

Mastermind
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Claws, you've talked about people being sick. As if you are a veritable panacea of mafia health. But understand this, if your ancestors could talk.....they'd be sickened with disappointment right now.
Probably right i litterly live my life to disappoint others
 

Dreyski

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1am my time, and work tomorrow. Or am I trolling BN? You decide, in about 33 hours.

Vote: LemonDemonGirl
 

MTR

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Hopefully I won't get sick during this game since I am coming off having covid. I hate getting thrown off being sick and then trying to play catch up.

So on a serious note I am not against actually voting someone off day one even though I typically go sleep on day one. I am open minded and willing to listen if people get some reads on anyone.
 

CWE

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Hopefully I won't get sick during this game since I am coming off having covid. I hate getting thrown off being sick and then trying to play catch up.

So on a serious note I am not against actually voting someone off day one even though I typically go sleep on day one. I am open minded and willing to listen if people get some reads on anyone.
Vote: MTR

Highly scummy post.

:sherlock:
 

Blind Ninja

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Hopefully I won't get sick during this game since I am coming off having covid. I hate getting thrown off being sick and then trying to play catch up.

So on a serious note I am not against actually voting someone off day one even though I typically go sleep on day one. I am open minded and willing to listen if people get some reads on anyone.
More time for us to vote you off during a nap
 

Claws

Mastermind
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day 1 is the most useless shit of a day. i mean absolutely no info. lets just rng whoever we please and get it over with
 

DivaSmurf

Lost Wolf
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breadcrumbing/claiming was not mentioned in rules, does this mean it's allowed?
 

3puppies

Lost Wolf
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I haven't played in several months. I have kind of skimmed through some of the prior game threads.

It does not feel like MTR to post anything serious on D1, and my first thought was that felt scummy. While I can see him intentionally trying to mix up his play style, consider me mildly suspicious of MTR.

I am trying to understand the value of yeeting someone D1 at all. Putting prior game revenge aside, I get that after the fact, once a flip is known, we get train information, but I really don't see how we could determine if it's worth trading one of our precious town lives.
 
vc 2

rock meets hard place

Kitten Herder
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Mazer(1)-Claws
CWE(1)-Nightingale
LemonDemonGirl(1)-Dreyski
Claws(1)-Blind Ninja
ForgottenHold(1)-Val the Moofia Boss
No Lynch(1)-3puppies
3puppies(1)-CWE

not voting: Satsu, PsychoSoldier, MTR, VoidKitten, DivaSmurf, LemonDemonGirl, Mazer, ForgottenHold

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.

deadline counter
 
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Foxxi

Administrator
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I haven't played in several months. I have kind of skimmed through some of the prior game threads.

It does not feel like MTR to post anything serious on D1, and my first thought was that felt scummy. While I can see him intentionally trying to mix up his play style, consider me mildly suspicious of MTR.

I am trying to understand the value of yeeting someone D1 at all. Putting prior game revenge aside, I get that after the fact, once a flip is known, we get train information, but I really don't see how we could determine if it's worth trading one of our precious town lives.
Ahhhhhh yes. The bold strategy of do fuck all and see what happens. I could get on board with that, sounds fun.









Nah.
Unvote: CWE
Vote: Pups
 

Foxxi

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I've thought hard on it, and I have decided that pups is either town, or scum. You're welcome.
 

Satsu

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Yah its a serious game. Hard thinking is requred.

Especially from Nightingale, she needs to hit ground running or I will think she is acting scummy ;>
 

Mazer

Spirit Breaker
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Read any good books lately?
I just read "Going Infinite" which chronicles the rise and fall of Sam Bankman-Fried. At one point, he had potentially accumulated wealth faster than anyone living. A short time later, he was bankrupt and convicted.

And so I must ask myself, who is riding high right now.....but unlikely to finish their story riding high. Whose story ends in disgrace and corruption?

And also will Dreyski figure out his 33 hours is off?
 

Mazer

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I haven't played in several months. I have kind of skimmed through some of the prior game threads.

It does not feel like MTR to post anything serious on D1, and my first thought was that felt scummy. While I can see him intentionally trying to mix up his play style, consider me mildly suspicious of MTR.

I am trying to understand the value of yeeting someone D1 at all. Putting prior game revenge aside, I get that after the fact, once a flip is known, we get train information, but I really don't see how we could determine if it's worth trading one of our precious town lives.
I'm not against sleep. My father's father often told him that after a hard day of working the drains, the best "self care' he could provide was to simply hope for a few hours of shut eye before it was time to wake up and go at it again.

But even my grandfather would have said the future doesn't need to look like the past. That's why he wanted more for his son.

And in this case, we have to ask ourselves what more looks like. Rocky is not running a Rajah style game. So we can't anticipate full spreadsheeting. Write-ups will probably just be who was killed and some flavor.

While sleep might very well be the best option on Night 1, we can't rely on the gamerunner to write the story for us.
 

3puppies

Lost Wolf
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Poke away, but I am verbose town, and since I always share what if anything I learn, scum won't want to keep me around.

It took me a few games to realize we can sometimes learn more from those who change their votes. Foxxi confounds that rule, though, especially on day 1 since she likes to poke to see if there are any reactions. I would OMGUS vote her but she got killed early last game.

I like Diva's thought about breadcrumbing. As a thought experiment, what if all of us posted our roles? Scum would have to lie, but since they don't know our roles, we'd be able to call them out if they claimed a role that one of us has.

Rock has titled this KISS, Keep it Simple Stupid. Does that imply no bastard mod activity? What do we expect from write-ups, if anything? Generally with 15 players, should we expect 5 scum, or 4 scum and 1 3rd party?

We know CWE doesn't lie, but I am willing to wager he probably wasn't sober when he voted me. And the rules don't prohibit asking, so dareIask, @CWE, can you be trusted this game? Maybe that's too direct. How about, would it be a waste of a town resource to keep an eye on you?
 

CWE

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Poke away, but I am verbose town, and since I always share what if anything I learn, scum won't want to keep me around.

It took me a few games to realize we can sometimes learn more from those who change their votes. Foxxi confounds that rule, though, especially on day 1 since she likes to poke to see if there are any reactions. I would OMGUS vote her but she got killed early last game.

I like Diva's thought about breadcrumbing. As a thought experiment, what if all of us posted our roles? Scum would have to lie, but since they don't know our roles, we'd be able to call them out if they claimed a role that one of us has.

Rock has titled this KISS, Keep it Simple Stupid. Does that imply no bastard mod activity? What do we expect from write-ups, if anything? Generally with 15 players, should we expect 5 scum, or 4 scum and 1 3rd party?

We know CWE doesn't lie, but I am willing to wager he probably wasn't sober when he voted me. And the rules don't prohibit asking, so dareIask, @CWE, can you be trusted this game? Maybe that's too direct. How about, would it be a waste of a town resource to keep an eye on you?
Kill me and find out.
 

MTR

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I haven't played in several months. I have kind of skimmed through some of the prior game threads.

It does not feel like MTR to post anything serious on D1, and my first thought was that felt scummy. While I can see him intentionally trying to mix up his play style, consider me mildly suspicious of MTR.

I am trying to understand the value of yeeting someone D1 at all. Putting prior game revenge aside, I get that after the fact, once a flip is known, we get train information, but I really don't see how we could determine if it's worth trading one of our precious town lives.
Even when shit posting all of day one I tend to get a couple serious posts in but yeah I don't completely shit post on day one anymore. It is a mix. Just depends on the game and what is going on day one.
 

Satsu

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I like Diva's thought about breadcrumbing. As a thought experiment, what if all of us posted our roles? Scum would have to lie, but since they don't know our roles, we'd be able to call them out if they claimed a role that one of us has.
We would have to plan some kind of claiming order otherwise scum will just wait and then claim what common role is still free. Or they just claim vt.

General rule in mafia game creating is that - if everyone claimed d1 game should be an almost guaranteed scum win.
 

Satsu

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Generally with 15 players, should we expect 5 scum, or 4 scum and 1 3rd party?
I dont think there would be 5 mafia. 4 mafia seems reasonable. There could be a 3rd party sure, but this is supposed to ba a simple game so what for.

11/4 imo
 

Foxxi

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Yah its a serious game. Hard thinking is requred.

Especially from Nightingale, she needs to hit ground running or I will think she is acting scummy ;>
Who says I'm acting?
Unvote: pups
Vote: satsu
 

PsychoSoldier

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MTR actually seems way more activated in this game then I've seen before.

I'm not a fan of 3pups start but I always feel that way and don't want to kill him d1 on his first game back.

I'm not in favor of a mass claim this early, though. That gives scum more room to navigate the claims and makes this boringly mechanical early on.
 

Satsu

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One more vote on me would be nice. Would be great if it came from scum.
 

Mazer

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I dont think there would be 5 mafia. 4 mafia seems reasonable. There could be a 3rd party sure, but this is supposed to ba a simple game so what for.

11/4 imo

Rocky has his demands for change, and the things he did not like. Chief among them were the 33% scum ratio common in Rajah games. So, I would imagine the RockHard is going to utilize a lower count as is more common in other set-ups.

I'm just glad Mt. Nobody isn't around to see what some people have become.
 

Satsu

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I am trying to understand the value of yeeting someone D1 at all. Putting prior game revenge aside, I get that after the fact, once a flip is known, we get train information, but I really don't see how we could determine if it's worth trading one of our precious town lives.
Idea here is that scum will kill town at night and we can either yeet town or scum.

If we get scum it is 1 for 1 and if we get town it is 2 for 0. If we sleep it is 1 for 0. Yeeting is mathematicaly better. And it gives info.*

*This applies to a standart simple mafia games that I believe this one is.
 

Satsu

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Rocky has his demands for change, and the things he did not like. Chief among them were the 33% scum ratio common in Rajah games. So, I would imagine the RockHard is going to utilize a lower count as is more common in other set-ups.

I'm just glad Mt. Nobody isn't around to see what some people have become.
I don't know what Rocks vision for a game is but I would consider 2.4 town for 1 mafia to be a point of balance.

If it is 10/5 then it is 2 : 1
If it is 11/4 then it is 2.75 : 1

Hard to balance 15 players maybe there is a 3rd party.
 

Mazer

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Your story was not written in a math textbook.
Idea here is that scum will kill town at night and we can either yeet town or scum.

If we get scum it is 1 for 1 and if we get town it is 2 for 0. If we sleep it is 1 for 0. Yeeting is mathematicaly better. And it gives info.*

*This applies to a standart simple mafia games that I believe this one is.
Excited Cody Rhodes GIF by TBS Network




We agree that At some point, in a non-powered base game, you have to produce info., which means being willing to go against the percentages. This is true.

But the "just do it' argument e implies that there's an equal chance you hit town and scum. Which there's not. You have somewhere between a 67% and a 75% chance to damage yourself with friendly fire most games on day 1. Since typically there's more town deaths than scum early, the odds often go in favor of a good shot more on each successive day. Day 1 is the day with the least amount of info, the most useless bias, and the worst odds. Basically, day 1 has a negative expected value for a kill. Day 1 and Night 1 are separate events, and the "guaranteed deficit" argument for n1 has no real value, when you consider the odds are typically aligned for a negative 2 value with a kill.

Which is not to say you shouldn't shoot/ If that's what you want to do, you would have to produce real pressure. Which is the hardest to do when people can just say "I'm not sure", and it's hard to argue. Which is still not to say, I'm against people making the effort. But I always find the "why not, it's better" with an absence of any real push to either be a bit shady, or just reliant on previous habits.

Now some, like Psych, have argued that it's just not fun to punt day 1. That I have no argument against, as it's a game. Psych also typically pushes hard to create pressure and at least get a shot.

This isn't particularly directed at Satsu, who I have no real issue with on wanting to look at day 1 kill.


I just want to put out there that if it's you're preferred strategy, you can do it for fun or put enough work to introduce additional variables, if you want it work out more often that not.

And Psych can label us as the No-Kill crybabies if he wants from the safety of his recording studio.

While we keep grinding it out.

cody-rhodes-gotta-do-the-work-american-nightmare-logo-shirt-shirt-510x510.jpg
 

Satsu

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Putting prior game revenge aside,
Doesnt have to be a revenge. You could vote someone that lived until the end of last game and won.
It was the second most common reason to d1 someone on mmoc. Right after - for shit and giggles.

So you have Claws for example. Already has a vote easy train.

Vote: Claws
 

3puppies

Lost Wolf
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Idea here is that scum will kill town at night and we can either yeet town or scum.

If we get scum it is 1 for 1 and if we get town it is 2 for 0. If we sleep it is 1 for 0. Yeeting is mathematicaly better. And it gives info.*

*This applies to a standart simple mafia games that I believe this one is.

Mathematically, you're erroneously combining both outcomes.

Sleep leads to 1 town loss (by night kill) for 0 scum kills, and is clearly much better than 2 town losses (yeet and NK) for 0 scum. Those are the two possibilities with a 0 scum loss.

Yes, 1 town loss with 1 scum kill would clearly be preferable, but in order to consider that possible outcome, you have to also consider its likelihood. And since scum has info as to who they are and who to target, along with the ability to work together, or just sit back and let town lead a town yeet, a D1 yeet is by far most likely to be town. That's the mathematical truth you're ignoring, in favor of getting information.

Therefore, mathematically, town should make every effort to avoid yeeting one of our own.

For those of us who haven't mastered the ability to read others, we are already way behind.

I appreciate Mazer's thoughts about how little we should probably expect from our gamerunner. If I understand you, @Mazer, since logic alone probably won't be enough for town to survive, we will need info from vote patterns and interactions, therefore the sooner the better. Is that basically what it comes down to?
 

Claws

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Sleep is for losers that dont want to take responsibuility for thier shit takes
 

Claws

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Doesnt have to be a revenge. You could vote someone that lived until the end of last game and won.
It was the second most common reason to d1 someone on mmoc. Right after - for shit and giggles.

So you have Claws for example. Already has a vote easy train.

Vote: Claws
Glory to the claws train
 

MTR

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I just read "Going Infinite" which chronicles the rise and fall of Sam Bankman-Fried. At one point, he had potentially accumulated wealth faster than anyone living. A short time later, he was bankrupt and convicted.

And so I must ask myself, who is riding high right now.....but unlikely to finish their story riding high. Whose story ends in disgrace and corruption?

And also will Dreyski figure out his 33 hours is off?
Interesting read. I am have been reading mostly witchy/pagan stuff lately. Need to get back to catching up on some of my favorite authors though. Behind on some on some of them.
 

Satsu

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you have to also consider its likelihood. And since scum has info as to who they are and who to target, along with the ability to work together, or just sit back and let town lead a town yeet
Likelihoods matter on random things and the idea is that yeet isnt a random thing. There is a thought/cause/effect things like that.

And if scums ability is to sit back and let town ... then you have an idea who scum are.
 

Claws

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Interesting read. I am have been reading mostly witchy/pagan stuff lately. Need to get back to catching up on some of my favorite authors though. Behind on some on some of them.
Im in the middle of the hercule poirot books by agatha christie and you wonder why im getting so good at solving bs
 

MTR

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Im in the middle of the hercule poirot books by agatha christie and you wonder why im getting so good at solving bs
I have never read any Agatha Christie books. I should probably do that at some point
 

Satsu

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Books are awesome in general. Havent read one in 15 years.

But I binge watched a lot of Miss Marple episodes years ago. Made me an expert crime solver. trust me.
 
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