Fingers of Suspicion

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Mafia 4 - The Fall of FoS

Rikishi

Vanilla Townie
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
95
For Riki, Croissant and anyone else who thinks that trying to control the votes and having any opinions at all is a scum tell

May i direct your attention to SubZero was sure trying to take control of things that EoD so y'all can now start scum reading that guy.

Personally, I don't think that the people they chose to push are scummiest people. I acknowledge that Xavier is scum reading me but I think they probably believe this.


That surprised the heck out of me. Anyone else thinking that once all of the scum voted, they triggered their end day early, in the hope / likelihood there's a mechanic to catch a non-voter.

No way to tell for sure yet., but it looks like there will be an inactivity or low activity voter to deal with, just not for day 1. And it appears that scum has the ability to end days early, so it means we need to get our votes in earlier rather than later. I wonder if scum also has the ability to end a night phase early as well?


Also, XavierWoods, when I voted for you it was early, just thanking you for getting me an avatar. And because KingWoods rocks. Earlier, someone else had voted for you so I was surprised you were toward the bottom. Glad you survived. I like your thought process and agree with you that it would be better to give someone we town read the immunity than give it to scum.

Since my 1 vote on you was early, it looks like ties are resolved by who reaches their total first or last. At least that's how I interpreted it.
 

Rikishi

Vanilla Townie
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
95
For Riki, Croissant and anyone else who thinks that trying to control the votes and having any opinions at all is a scum tell

May i direct your attention to SubZero was sure trying to take control of things that EoD so y'all can now start scum reading that guy.

Personally, I don't think that the people they chose to push are scummiest people. I acknowledge that Xavier is scum reading me but I think they probably believe this.

Don't you think that if there were scum on the bottom, they would have had teammates swap votes to get them to two? And they would have been paying close attention just in case a teammate was falling down?
 

Sora

Scorpionish
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
322
Don't you think that if there were scum on the bottom, they would have had teammates swap votes to get them to two? And they would have been paying close attention just in case a teammate was falling down?
I would be surprised if nobody on the mafia team was paying a closer watch on the situation!
 

Sora

Scorpionish
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
322
That surprised the heck out of me. Anyone else thinking that once all of the scum voted, they triggered their end day early, in the hope / likelihood there's a mechanic to catch a non-voter.

No way to tell for sure yet., but it looks like there will be an inactivity or low activity voter to deal with, just not for day 1. And it appears that scum has the ability to end days early, so it means we need to get our votes in earlier rather than later. I wonder if scum also has the ability to end a night phase early as well?
This is an interesting hypothesis, and one that I don't think we should discount. I think it is likely that the people in the non voting pile at the end of the day are more likely to be town.
 

Sora

Scorpionish
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
322
People not voting at the time of the announcement:

Alysrazor, Gibbs, Hades, Sephiroth, SolidSnake, XavierWoods, GrumpyCat
People not voting at the end of the day:

Gibbs, Sephiroth, XavierWoods, Arceus

I think that the latter group is the one that matters since mafia could have given their teammates a heads up before going through with starting the countdown. I would attribute quite a bit of town points to these four people for this.
 

Sora

Scorpionish
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
322
If I were a town slank vig I would strongly consider holstering tonight.
 

Rikishi

Vanilla Townie
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Messages
95
This is an interesting hypothesis, and one that I don't think we should discount. I think it is likely that the people in the non voting pile at the end of the day are more likely to be town.

Or they could be 3party.

What are your thoughts about the ranking of positions in the total vote count list. I think there is a reason the post # was included, and that it was not random for Hades nor Xavier to not get chosen for the 25% survive / 75% elimination spot.

I also think that there is a reason's that we did not get a flip, and that it means there may be a resurrection role. If anyone has it, given the nature of the apparent scum action ending the day early, it seems pretty safe to presume that the kill was a townie. And so are Woods and Hades, the others scum left on the bottom.
 

Sora

Scorpionish
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Messages
322
Or they could be 3party.

What are your thoughts about the ranking of positions in the total vote count list. I think there is a reason the post # was included, and that it was not random for Hades nor Xavier to not get chosen for the 25% survive / 75% elimination spot.

I also think that there is a reason's that we did not get a flip, and that it means there may be a resurrection role. If anyone has it, given the nature of the apparent scum action ending the day early, it seems pretty safe to presume that the kill was a townie. And so are Woods and Hades, the others scum left on the bottom.
Third party is good party.

I think it might be that last person voted is the tie break. Will need to test.

Yeah like Snake's posts weren't even scummy to begin with
 

Sora

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322
Or they could be 3party.

What are your thoughts about the ranking of positions in the total vote count list. I think there is a reason the post # was included, and that it was not random for Hades nor Xavier to not get chosen for the 25% survive / 75% elimination spot.

I also think that there is a reason's that we did not get a flip, and that it means there may be a resurrection role. If anyone has it, given the nature of the apparent scum action ending the day early, it seems pretty safe to presume that the kill was a townie. And so are Woods and Hades, the others scum left on the bottom.
Third party is good party.

I think it might be that last person voted is the tie break. Will need to test.

Yeah like Snake's posts weren't even scummy to begin with
 

Sora

Scorpionish
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322
Which is a damn shame because mafia should really kill Kumquat instead.
 

Applejack

Lunchable
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May 29, 2023
Messages
12
well that was unexpected. I was asleep during the fire drill. I am sad we lost the box man. box man an OG.
 

GrumpyCat

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I also think that there is a reason's that we did not get a flip, and that it means there may be a resurrection role. If anyone has it, given the nature of the apparent scum action ending the day early, it seems pretty safe to presume that the kill was a townie. And so are Woods and Hades, the others scum left on the bottom.
This looks like a repeat from Harry Potter game with no flips early and a ressurect later alright.

I also think its safe to assume Snake was town here. Hard to believe mafia Snake would not be aware of most/least vote mechanic. He was the only one on his train with a self vote.
If he simply unvoted he would be safe on 0 votes.
 

GrumpyCat

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I'm currently reading Riki as the N1 kill.
Yeah they seem like one of the spreadsheeting types. From what I remember scum hate those.

I mean it's not like scum need to kill them right away but still better to take use of annonimity and not reveal that someone is good with those.
 

Sora

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I've never done a spreadsheet in my life please don't kill meeeeeeee
 

GrumpyCat

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You post a lot. Thats a big no no as well. But worry not, you already told them Kumkwat is the best choice so thats what they are going to do.
 

Sora

Scorpionish
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I wouldn't mind taking a shot if it means Kumquat gets to live longer!
 

GrumpyCat

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I don't know about Kumquat but I think you were tryharding D1 way too much than most scum find necessary.
In most cases that is a town tell. Not a guarantee but a good start.
 

Kumquat

Vanilla Townie
Joined
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133
Well now I can't decide if you want me alive or dead Sora. Sure felt like you wanted a kumquat squirted.

Snake not voting or unvoting to save himself is strange, but I don't know if it means much. Wouldn't anyone have reason to save themself in that scenario no matter what they are?
 

Sora

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Well now I can't decide if you want me alive or dead Sora. Sure felt like you wanted a kumquat squirted.

Snake not voting or unvoting to save himself is strange, but I don't know if it means much. Wouldn't anyone have reason to save themself in that scenario no matter what they are?
I would gladly see you gone personally but would be willing to prolong your life out of necessity to serve the greater good.
 

GrumpyCat

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Snake not voting or unvoting to save himself is strange, but I don't know if it means much. Wouldn't anyone have reason to save themself in that scenario no matter what they are?
Maybe if Hades or the Woods guy were their more powerful scumbuddy or something.

But in that case they could vote on them, bring them to 2 votes and Snake would be fine at 0.
 

Kumquat

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Maybe if Hades or the Woods guy were their more powerful scumbuddy or something.

But in that case they could vote on them, bring them to 2 votes and Snake would be fine at 0.
But if hades and woods got votes to put themselves at 2 and snake unvoted, then the bottom person would have been chosen from the people with 2 votes?
 

GrumpyCat

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I believe so.

I took a look at how those with same number of votes are aranged and i can't find a pattern.

Looks random, doesn't have much to do with voting/unvoting order.
 

GrumpyCat

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We could likely make some reasonable guesses. Many of us been playing these games for a long while
I was thinking if I should try to connect fake accounts with real players but decided to go with the spirit of the game and treat everyone like bunch of random nobodies.

(But my brain is trying to make connections regardless)
 

MasterChief

Lost Wolf
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People not voting at the time of the announcement:

Alysrazor, Gibbs, Hades, Sephiroth, SolidSnake, XavierWoods, GrumpyCat
People not voting at the end of the day:

Gibbs, Sephiroth, XavierWoods, Arceus

I think that the latter group is the one that matters since mafia could have given their teammates a heads up before going through with starting the countdown. I would attribute quite a bit of town points to these four people for this.
This is pretty good analysis. Maybe you're a good guy after all.
 

Sora

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For Riki, Croissant and anyone else who thinks that trying to control the votes and having any opinions at all is a scum tell

May i direct your attention to SubZero was sure trying to take control of things that EoD so y'all can now start scum reading that guy.

Personally, I don't think that the people they chose to push are scummiest people. I acknowledge that Xavier is scum reading me but I think they probably believe this.
After reading the fire still page properly I realized that SubZero wasn't as much trying to control the votes as they were trying to keep count.
 

Kumquat

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I figured the people who had self votes putting them in danger of being the one hit by the low vote roll probably aren't scum risking that. Especially when the votes were placed before we had any clue how void was going to handle high and low votes
 

Rikishi

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I believe so.

I took a look at how those with same number of votes are aranged and i can't find a pattern.

Looks random, doesn't have much to do with voting/unvoting order.


The vote count lists people in the order they reached that number of votes, and includes the post numbers of each vote.

Last with 1 was the last person to get a vote for them.
Last with 2 was the last person to get a second vote.
Does NOT look random to me.


And Sora, I am not sure if you pointing out I may be the N1 kill target because am a threat to scum because I am a talkative person trying solve in order to suggest I get protection tonight, or if that was your attempt at a warning to me to tone it down for my own safety. That horse has left the barn.
 

Bacon

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Might be worth looking at the votes when the day got shortened and work out why scum triggered it then.
 

Bacon

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Day 1 Vote Count:

Sora - 3 (MasterChief #137, Arceus #152, PrincessPeach #297)
GrumpyCat - 2 (JackSparrow #45, Croissant #200)
HulkHogan - 2 (Twintainia #53, Pikachu #166)
SubZero - 2 (Sora #105, ArtTheClown #331)
SolidSnake - 2 (Kumquat #282, SubZero #376)
Hades - 1 (HulkHogan #8)
Alysrazor - 1 (Medivh #83)
XavierWoods - 1 (Rikishi #191)
Croissant - 1 (Bacon #210)
Applejack - 1 (Applejack #212)
Moana - 1 (Moana #261)

Not Voting: Alysrazor, Gibbs, Hades, Sephiroth, SolidSnake, XavierWoods, GrumpyCat #274

This was the state of play before the event - we know Grumpycat and SolidSnake ended up top/bottom
 

Bacon

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—---------------

Final Day 1 Vote Count:

GrumpyCat - 3 (JackSparrow #45, Croissant #200, GrumpyCat #437)

HulkHogan - 2 (Twintainia #53, Pikachu #166)
Alysrazor - 2 (Medivh #83, SubZero #422)
SubZero - 2 (Sora #105, ArtTheClown #331)
Sora - 2 (MasterChief #137, PrincessPeach #297)
Croissant - 2 (Bacon #210, Alysrazor #430)
Applejack - 2 (Applejack #212, Kumquat #413)
Moana - 2 (Moana #261, Hades #417)
Hades - 1 (HulkHogan #8)
XavierWoods - 1 (Rikishi #191)
SolidSnake - 1 (SolidSnake #389)

Not Voting: Gibbs, Sephiroth, XavierWoods, Arceus #403


The player at the top of the vote list is: GrumpyCat

The player at the bottom of the vote list is: SolidSnake
 

Bacon

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Maybe someone more perceptive can make something of that. The only thing I got is that Listo might be one of the non-voters.
 

SubZero

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404
Maybe someone more perceptive can make something of that. The only thing I got is that Listo might be one of the non-voters.
Nah, I read that as Listo is the slank vig and won't be punishing anyone today
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
Vote: SubZero

I still haven't read anything other the few comments above my first comment but putting my vote here for the drama.
By this I assume you just wanted to stoke the fire between me and Sora, not specifically trying to save or kill me?
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
For Riki, Croissant and anyone else who thinks that trying to control the votes and having any opinions at all is a scum tell

May i direct your attention to SubZero was sure trying to take control of things that EoD so y'all can now start scum reading that guy.

Personally, I don't think that the people they chose to push are scummiest people. I acknowledge that Xavier is scum reading me but I think they probably believe this.
Nice deflection
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
Don't you think that if there were scum on the bottom, they would have had teammates swap votes to get them to two? And they would have been paying close attention just in case a teammate was falling down?
I think it would be too late to try and save Hades when he was put in danger, because the time limit was about up and there was no good reason to save him with his entrance, so it would look pretty sus if they tried to save him then.

The simple fact that Hades popped in literally after the timer started only to apologize for being late and get a vote in (after Arceus had voted him out of death range) makes him one of my top suspects.
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
I took another glance at that EoD and am curious why Croissant was saved?
Was croissant specifically saved or was he part of a group of players you could argue were saved like Applejack and Moana? You can't know that without flips.

Without flips, I think it's more prescient to focus on who voted without giving reasons for their preferences. As in people who didn't talk about who they prefer to kill or save.
 

Sora

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Was croissant specifically saved or was he part of a group of players you could argue were saved like Applejack and Moana? You can't know that without flips.

Without flips, I think it's more prescient to focus on who voted without giving reasons for their preferences. As in people who didn't talk about who they prefer to kill or save.
This is what I'm asking. Why did you suggest that Alysrazor votes Croissant there? Why did Alysrazor vote them?
 

Sora

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At the moment, you are thy one not giving me a reason for your preference.
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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May 29, 2023
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404
Lazy Sora perpetuating their lazy read on me, not even actually paying attention to my ISO

Tsk tsk
 

Sora

Scorpionish
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322
Lazy Sora perpetuating their lazy read on me, not even actually paying attention to my ISO

Tsk tsk
What do you mean I'm perpetuating my read on you.

I am asking for your reasons. This is your chance to convince me that your actions come from town. Yet another chance you are ignoring.

I just did a ctr+f of "Croissant" in your iso and I do not see the answer.

Feels like you are just gaslighting me here.
 

GrumpyCat

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Last with 1 was the last person to get a vote for them.
Last with 2 was the last person to get a second vote.
Does NOT look random to me.
Then why is Alysrazor above Subzero if Alysrazor got vote later (422) than Subzero (331).

Maybe VK only sorted last players and left the rest as is.
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
What do you mean I'm perpetuating my read on you.

I am asking for your reasons. This is your chance to convince me that your actions come from town. Yet another chance you are ignoring.

I just did a ctr+f of "Croissant" in your iso and I do not see the answer.

Feels like you are just gaslighting me here.
That was my whole point. It's not about croissant, it's about who I preferred to die. This is really easy to put together if you pay attention to the last hour of my D1 ISO. You're focused on who said what about croissant when there's context for people that isn't directly tied to their thoughts on croissant.
 

Sora

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May 29, 2023
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322
That was my whole point. It's not about croissant, it's about who I preferred to die. This is really easy to put together if you pay attention to the last hour of my D1 ISO. You're focused on who said what about croissant when there's context for people that isn't directly tied to their thoughts on croissant.
This is what I was asking, and I suspected as much but just wanted you to confirm or to see if there was anything else.

You could have just told me as much when I asked instead of making me pull this out of you.

So you wanted Xavier and Applejack dead more than you wanted Croissant dead. Fair enough. As it stands, I find Xavier to be the towniest out of this group and the other two are questionable for me. I don't recall you providing reasoning for any of these really so this answer doesn't make me feel any better about you. Buy hey, it didn't hurt to try.
 
Day 2 Start

VoidKitten

Dr. Voidiarty
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Listo did not appreciate what happened at the end of the first day. While he was not going to enforce the plan tonight, he didn’t like that someone was killed just for having the least popularity. Listo believes we were all special in our own ways and he closed his eyes, muttering some words in an ancient language.

SolidSnake started to reform from the crumbling ashes and before long he was as good as new.

SolidSnake has been resurrected and returned to the game.

Morrison
was pacing around Castle Rezam, restless as he wanted to cause some carnage. He walked over to the console and input his activation codes for one of his own special weapons he had been developing over the years, hunting newbies and the House.

Once the command was input, a freeze ray, this time like Johnny Snow, fired out connecting with everyone who was not a member of the Supremacy, freezing them in their spot. Morrison’s eyes glinted as he slinked away into the castle.

Foxxi dodged three freeze ray blasts until she was hit squarely in the chest. She froze in place, but she would not be deterred. Foxxi broke free of the ice and set about knowing she would find who she was looking for.

DivaSmurf was looking through his handy utility belt. He grabbed an item and quickly set out from his room. DivaSmurf ran across SubZero and attached a device to him. DivaSmurf quickly ran back to his room and gave someone credentials to check out SubZero.

Sabi looked over her tarot cards and sighed. She grabbed one casually, looked it over and nodded, thinking this would be a good chance for tomorrow.

Lora set out, following a faint scent of fruit, knowing whom he wanted to kill. He was surprised to see his target had not been frozen and was out and about. Lora quickly followed behind them and waited until they stopped. Kumquat was looking at someone, but before they could say anything, their throat was slit. As the blood ran from Kumquat’s throat, the clocktower bonged repeatedly, as if paying its final respects.

Kumquat, playing as Foxxi, a Mentoring Clockmaker, has been killed. Actual Poster: Nightingale

—---------------

Living Players:

1. Alysrazor
2. Applejack
3. Arceus
4. ArtTheClown
5. Bacon
6. Croissant
7. Gibbs
8. GrumpyCat
9. Hades
10. HulkHogan
11. JackSparrow
12. MasterChief
13. Medivh
14. Moana
15. Pikachu
16. PrincessPeach
17. Rikishi
18. Sephiroth
19. SolidSnake
20. Sora
21. SubZero
22. Twintania
23. XavierWoods

—---------------

Dead Players:

1. Kumquat, playing as Foxxi, a Mentoring Clockmaker, has been killed. Actual Poster: Nightingale

—---------------

It is now Day 2. Day 2 will end on June 6th at 8:00pm ET or when majority is reached. With 23 players alive, majority is 12 votes on a single player. If majority is not reached by end of day, modified majority will come into play.
 
Last edited:

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
This is what I was asking, and I suspected as much but just wanted you to confirm or to see if there was anything else.

You could have just told me as much when I asked instead of making me pull this out of you.

So you wanted Xavier and Applejack dead more than you wanted Croissant dead. Fair enough. As it stands, I find Xavier to be the towniest out of this group and the other two are questionable for me. I don't recall you providing reasoning for any of these really so this answer doesn't make me feel any better about you. Buy hey, it didn't hurt to try.
I prefer making you work for it. You're missing a small piece of the puzzle, but that's close enough.

I have reasons for my choices. I might share them eventually
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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May 29, 2023
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404
Wonder if Lora was a ninja kill

Also, in case anyone didn't catch, that was a mass block
 

Sora

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Sounds like scum either watched or copped SubZero

One is neutral for him, the other would make him town

I'm not sure SubZero is the one scum would want to rolecop here though.
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
Assuming today is an elimination vote

Vote: Hades

Starting here

Welcome back, Snake
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
Sounds like scum either watched or copped SubZero

One is neutral for him, the other would make him town

I'm not sure SubZero is the one scum would want to rolecop here though.
Considering the massblock, it would make no sense for them to watch/track me
 

Sora

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Foxxi the player = Nightingale to clarify
I'm aware. Do you mean you didn't realize Kumquat was Foxxi or you didn't suspect them to be a third party?

Personally, Foxxi was the first person that I had identified. I think she was extremely obvious.
 

VoidKitten

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Day 2 Vote Count:

Hades - 1 (SubZero #570)

Not Voting: Alysrazor, Applejack, Arceus, ArtTheClown, Bacon, Croissant, Gibbs, GrumpyCat, Hades, HulkHogan, JackSparrow, MasterChief, Medivh, Moana, Pikachu, PrincessPeach, Rikishi, Sephiroth, SolidSnake, Sora, SubZero, Twintania, XavierWoods
 

Sora

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I'm scratching my head as to why SubZero would be so uncooperative with me as town but okay.

Vote: Princess

Maybe I'll start here.
 

Sora

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322
I guess it'd be dumb to push him today and spying him risks outing the cop in case it is indeed a watching device. If mafia were to NK him I would be fine with that so I don't have to worry about him anymore
 

Sora

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322
Why would I push you if there Is a chance that mafia rolecopped you confirming you as town.

Maybe we should wait for Diva's flip first to resolve this.
 

Sora

Scorpionish
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Everything SubZero is posting tells me they are mafia.

But the actions tell me he is more likely town than not.

Go figure.
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
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404
But whyyyy
I explained it. Your arrival during the timer event felt like someone coming in to meet post count and get a vote in so they wouldn't die. The fact it specifically came after the trigger and that's all you did makes it feel like you knew because your team warned you and tried to rush you in to get a vote.

Like at least Snake hung around and shitpost interacted the tiniest bit before dipping, and then he stuck around to at least question why I wanted to vote him.
 

VoidKitten

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he/him
Day 2 Vote Count:

PrincessPeach - 2 (Sora #577, JackSparrow #590)
Hades - 1 (SubZero #570)
SubZero - 1 (Hades #586)

Not Voting: Alysrazor, Applejack, Arceus, ArtTheClown, Bacon, Croissant, Gibbs, GrumpyCat, HulkHogan, MasterChief, Medivh, Moana, Pikachu, PrincessPeach, Rikishi, Sephiroth, SolidSnake, Twintania, XavierWoods
 

SubZero

Scum Hunter
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
404
Hades/Twin/Applejack/MasterChief is the pool I'm currently wanting to vote

Could honestly go for Princess Peach, too. Her posts have been very nothing.
 

Sora

Scorpionish
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
322
But who would scum expect to catch if there was a mass block. Unless this lasts for the rest of a game.
Yeah, I remember this role called the cameraman who installs a watching device on a person and watches them the entire game. It could be this, could be just a rolecop on SubZero.
 

Sora

Scorpionish
Joined
May 29, 2023
Messages
322
Hades/Twin/Applejack/MasterChief is the pool I'm currently wanting to vote

Could honestly go for Princess Peach, too. Her posts have been very nothing.
Thank you this will be my pool of people not to vote
 
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