Fingers of Suspicion

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Vanillatown 2: Revenge is a Dish Best Served Kosher (Mafia 3)

WindwardAway

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LDG is a huge blindspot for me because I keep forgetting she's in the game
If she's town I lowkey hope she gets the gun so I don't have to solve her
Otherwise I think she's a contender for a shooting target cause idk

I actually think I'm an ok player to shoot as well but being revealed as an IC isn't really going to magically increase the accuracy of my reads lol
 

Jarrod1983

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See there was a reason I let Claws on my grass. I wish we had got that Matthieu vote through.
 

WindwardAway

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Whoever gets the gun just shoot me when the next day phase starts. I'm glad I decided to go with my gut on Claws but to be honest with Resident Evil 4's remake launching at midnight tomorrow...I don't see much point in arguing back and forth only to become the next Claws.

Just look at Mazer when he leads not one but two innocent men to the gallows.
Er, actually he said shoot, that's not the same thing cause it would clear him if he's town 😅 but I was referring to this post.
 

VoidKitten

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1. @Jarrod1983
2. @Matthieu
3. @Mazer
4. @LemonDemonGirl
5. @Val the Moofia Boss
6. @MTR
8. Satsu @VoidKitten
10. @WindwardAway
11. @Kareemah
12. Peter Griffin @Blind Ninja
14. @FutureHold


I'm going to clarify the gun rules as there seems to be some confusion.

It acts as a desperado shot. That means if the gun holder shoots a town player, the shooter will die instead, NOT along with the target.

The person will be given the gun publicly, and only town can receive the gun. The shot will be made public, in-thread.
Well this makes it more interesting.

We get two Innocent Childs tomorrow basically and wont lose two people and only lose one.

Whomever gets the gun will be called out as town. Whomever gets shot will also be known as town. This might be useful to use on someone we aren't sure of (or are super sure of).

But it is a lot better for us than losing 2 town. That also gives us an extra misyeet.
 

VoidKitten

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For Matthieu,

It feels town. Every post still feels town. But he will absolutely be one to use AtE to survive as scum. He will also self vote as both alignments and act this way when he is being potentially eliminated as both.

When he was in the ToL games, he was the hunter and was offering to be yeeted constantly because he knew of the retribution ability and bluntly stated he was the hunter on like D2.

I can see it going both ways now as much as I want to call it town.

But, it would be very ballsy to offer to be shot after a town flip when he was the other object. Is it a ballsy play to seem town? Or is he just town.
 

Mazer

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Actually maybe it's not matthieu

I can definitely see scum staking their life on town, but I don't know if I see scum staking their life on town and then going "well I told you, and now you're gonna kill me anyway so why bother?"

I would've expected him to have a bit more fight left than that, granted RE4 is a thing, but I'm gonna try focusing elsewhere for a bit.
As much as I want matthieu pushed, only focusing on him would be a mistake. One frustrating thing here is how often, town or scum, people respond to basic questions or pressure by pretty much giving up. happens so much, people know "it's a play'

regardless of matthieu's alignment, getting nothing from future is not helping.

i still think Kareemah is town, but we need a little more during day phases.
 

Mazer

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For Matthieu,

It feels town. Every post still feels town. But he will absolutely be one to use AtE to survive as scum. He will also self vote as both alignments and act this way when he is being potentially eliminated as both.

When he was in the ToL games, he was the hunter and was offering to be yeeted constantly because he knew of the retribution ability and bluntly stated he was the hunter on like D2.

I can see it going both ways now as much as I want to call it town.

But, it would be very ballsy to offer to be shot after a town flip when he was the other object. Is it a ballsy play to seem town? Or is he just town.
This definitely a challenging game (one of the reasons I like it), because we have to push reads and rely on info differently. I'd typically still be more cautious on putting things out, but without night actions, that luxury isn't there.

My concern with your matthieu read, is it seems like you're wanting to back up your vibe. Which could be something I'm doing the same on, based on an opposite early read.

Yesterday, you were on claws for voting you, but matthieu got a pass for saying you were pressing him. Then you didn't think he would kill cwe n1, but you apparently think I would. it seems like you're clearing him on things that are lesser than others.

I do appreciate the perspective on his earlier games. Definitely the hunter is a little different, and I don't want to overread that retribution, but good to know the previous playstyle.


Day 2 aside, do you think I'm wrong to consider his day 1 vote a concern trigger?
 

VoidKitten

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This definitely a challenging game (one of the reasons I like it), because we have to push reads and rely on info differently. I'd typically still be more cautious on putting things out, but without night actions, that luxury isn't there.

My concern with your matthieu read, is it seems like you're wanting to back up your vibe. Which could be something I'm doing the same on, based on an opposite early read.

Yesterday, you were on claws for voting you, but matthieu got a pass for saying you were pressing him. Then you didn't think he would kill cwe n1, but you apparently think I would. it seems like you're clearing him on things that are lesser than others.

I do appreciate the perspective on his earlier games. Definitely the hunter is a little different, and I don't want to overread that retribution, but good to know the previous playstyle.


Day 2 aside, do you think I'm wrong to consider his day 1 vote a concern trigger?
Not anything I would say is alignment indicative. He always votes sleep and then random votes/OMGUS votes.

However, I did make a comment in my notes about Matthieu that his vote coming off of sleep was strange. Just more of a passive thing. Not even the target. But him saying "See I can make a real vote" or whatever he said wasn't something I normally see.

But that is really it. The rest was what I perceive as town but its a weaker read now for sure after the Claws flip. I don't know if I'm at the kill it with fire stage, but he is dropping down.

So is Winward. And you, but that is more because I refuse to let you fool me and you are good. Its a very similar reason to why Windward is going down further.
 

Mazer

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Sorry all, overslept my nap a bit. Phase officially ended at 8:08pm EST, this is the final vote count


Vote Count
5 - Claws (Kareemah, VoidKitten, MTR, Val the Moofia Boss, Windward Away)
3 - Matthieu (Mazer, Claws, Jarrod1983)
1 - VoidKitten (Val the Moofia Boss)
1 - Kareemah (Matthieu)

Not Voting: FutureHold, Peter Griffin, LemonDemonGirl

You sweet, sweet, summer children...

Because we're usually dealing with 4-6 person scum teams, we typically assume a certain level of strategy. Odds are good that they'll get at least one person who responds to the less actives when they pop in, watches the flow, and at least strategizes some if other people get busy etc. The kind of person who made sure everyone on the group project turned their shit in, and wrote the References Cited. Often there are at least a few. So we keep that mindset throughout the game.

We can't make that assumption here, with a 3 person scum that lost one day 1. There could be two inactives, two talky talkers, or anything in between.
 

Mazer

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Not anything I would say is alignment indicative. He always votes sleep and then random votes/OMGUS votes.

However, I did make a comment in my notes about Matthieu that his vote coming off of sleep was strange. Just more of a passive thing. Not even the target. But him saying "See I can make a real vote" or whatever he said wasn't something I normally see.

But that is really it. The rest was what I perceive as town but its a weaker read now for sure after the Claws flip. I don't know if I'm at the kill it with fire stage, but he is dropping down.

So is Winward. And you, but that is more because I refuse to let you fool me and you are good. Its a very similar reason to why Windward is going down further.
yes, yes. You're content to be the Narnian dwarves in The Last Battle. Let's just assume I'm not asking for you to validate me, and save us both some time. I'll take it as a compliment, and both Town Mazer and Scum Mazer will tuck it away for future use.

You're probably town, and have the only counterpoints on mathieu. So need to vet that out. So if there's not much alignment indicative in his behaviors, is this primarily just a feel read?

Honestly, that's primarily why I'm ok with Jarrod. And I think it would have been easy for him to just vote claws. unless he was trying to pocket me. that's the only reason why I could see a scum Jarrod not just going along with claws. So, still have him as town.
 

VoidKitten

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yes, yes. You're content to be the Narnian dwarves in The Last Battle. Let's just assume I'm not asking for you to validate me, and save us both some time. I'll take it as a compliment, and both Town Mazer and Scum Mazer will tuck it away for future use.

You're probably town, and have the only counterpoints on mathieu. So need to vet that out. So if there's not much alignment indicative in his behaviors, is this primarily just a feel read?

Honestly, that's primarily why I'm ok with Jarrod. And I think it would have been easy for him to just vote claws. unless he was trying to pocket me. that's the only reason why I could see a scum Jarrod not just going along with claws. So, still have him as town.
I have Jarrod as likely town too. I didn't see the OMGUS challenge to claws and voting on him coming from scum Jarrod? Along with his general posts they feel more town.

And yeah its a feel on Matthieu. I'd like to look elsewhere and prod before coming back to him. Maybe his offer to cover Claws pocketed me and then the double down especially with the gun.

I can see the counter arguments to that though so its what I am jumping back and forth between.
 

Mazer

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Getting my reads out now, been data dumping through the morning, so will have missed anything after like 8:30. I'm going mostly off memory, so there's a chance I'm missing something or made a mistake. We still have some time to shoot holes.

Threat Levels
Red-I feel like there's danger here. A bare minimum should be highest vetting priority
Orange-I can't mentally build a good town case-could go either way
Yellow-Most likely safe, there might be something that just keeps me from 90% (as an example my respect for Psych means he will never rank a lower threat than yellow. even if we're masons together.)
Green-Feel strongly confident in a town read.


People within colors are in no particular order

Green-
Jarrod-Jarrod passed my early test. This is probably town Jarrod. I think scum jarrod usually comes in and votes for claws. The only motivation I could see for not is if he wants to pocket me as his primary defender prior to that vote. Still feels low probability

Kareemah-her case was pretty succinct and strong. Not a lot yesterday changed. If I'm very wrong, and she is scum, I would suspect a less active partner.

MTR- Seems town mtr, although like jarrod, I was a little thrown early. Was the Caito counter train. Only break this glass in case of emergency. Although the claws train is understandable, nobody should get bonus points for being on it. Mtr's train now had 1 known town on it now, but there are still 2 people on POI list on it. Maybe he's light green on it.

Yellow-I'm to get some of my deep dives out here, so they're on record for folks, in case they're helpful as the game progresses.

Peter-Early Caito voter. yellow instead of green, because we should know better than ruling out all trains at this point. I have a bit of a fear that there could be a sacrifice play (claws read on Peter contradicts exact plays I've set up with Peter in scum chat, his first game he was almost sole survivor in one of the most complex games I've ever played), but anyone who looks at that unless late game gets desperate is probably stretching or on agenda. Welcome Blind Ninja.

VK-Probably town. Satsu tied the Caito vote. My respect for Voidkitten's scum game stops this from going too far into green. My deep conspiracy is around Vk talked about him throwing a vote on scum teammates early, and that it was a 50/50 in a game where Caito seemed disengaged. it would be a great clear play. I don't think this should be a high priority, and is probably only relevant if there are a few mislynches and he's still alive and looks wolfy. If he's not clean, we're probably in a bad place. But an ounce of prevention and all that. Nobody moves up on trust when we're wrong. But not a real change, and still only on the deep conspiracy list.

LDG-I do not currently have a read on her, but I think it will become apparent eventually if we need to worry. Also, the LDG should be in yellow font. Without a vote, sadly, I'm going to need to upgrade LDG to Orange. Although i will keep her with yellow font. I'm hoping she will have the opportunity to get her vote in early this phase.

Orange
Windward
-I pivoted between yellow and orange here. Windward seems like a strong player, and I have no baseline on them to be really confident in my reads. My gut says their approach is more consistent with a default town approach, but that's little more than gut. Obviously would be better if they have a vote on record last phase, but did not get the feeling at all that they were avoiding. The orange ranking is more reflective of my own lack of confidence in reading an experienced player that is new to our group than any definitive point. Same thing. None of us get to move up on trust when we're wrong. She at least seemed willing to take matt, so if he is dirty, that helps her a bit, even with the later flip to claws.

Val-I do not have a strong read on val, and I almost never do. Always a danger to fly under radar. nothing really AI that I saw, but he also looks worse if Matt is dirty.

Future-early meme vote and then very little. Possibly flying under the radar. If claws is indeed dirty, I don't clear much from claw's pressure as claws was pressed from the early point, and none of his comments on future had much heat. I feel like there's some small chance. Encroaching on Red.

Red
Claws-I love Claws like I love Grip6 belts. They're snug and comforting. And when they're on, things just feel more secure. And I'm not a paid endorser for either. But claws pinged early (even though he is notoriously difficult to read), and he was the first to move to mtr (already discussed) when there was press on Caito and matt. He's thrown out lines to see if he can fish. And I read him as he knows what is going on. I loved that when I asked him to rank people, and he didn't rank Mattheu. Who has been a person I posted about, has posted a lot about. I close my eyes. Only for a moment and the moment's gone. All my dreams, pass before my eyes a curiosity. Dust in the wind. All we are is dust in the wind.

Matt-I'm not going to go through all my thoughts on Matt again. But the one thing I'll add, if there was a world where we had 2 right off, that matt's responses line up nicely with one hail mary strategy. Yep. Said a bunch here.

Also, one we all sometimes have keeps these in the red threat. Sometimes things seem a bit too obvious, and people want to play the big master detective. And then something that was obvious early will get ignored too long (or completely). I fucked up a game a few months ago, by voting Rando at the end, rather than going back and seeing what was obvious with Pabs's team. I was able to exploit this last game to end up stretching things out until it got beyond voting, and ghostbusters, where we went almost let future hang around so long he was getting near endgame. Long aside, but the high probability things that we allow to linger without continuing to press on or act on are dangerous.

Thank you for coming to my Red Threat Ted Talk
 

WindwardAway

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Well this makes it more interesting.

We get two Innocent Childs tomorrow basically and wont lose two people and only lose one.

Whomever gets the gun will be called out as town. Whomever gets shot will also be known as town. This might be useful to use on someone we aren't sure of (or are super sure of).

But it is a lot better for us than losing 2 town. That also gives us an extra misyeet.
Well, the player getting shot might also just be scum and die, wouldn't that be great 😄
 

WindwardAway

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Not anything I would say is alignment indicative. He always votes sleep and then random votes/OMGUS votes.

However, I did make a comment in my notes about Matthieu that his vote coming off of sleep was strange. Just more of a passive thing. Not even the target. But him saying "See I can make a real vote" or whatever he said wasn't something I normally see.

But that is really it. The rest was what I perceive as town but its a weaker read now for sure after the Claws flip. I don't know if I'm at the kill it with fire stage, but he is dropping down.

So is Winward. And you, but that is more because I refuse to let you fool me and you are good. Its a very similar reason to why Windward is going down further.
Lol, if you'd seen my scum game you'd realize I would absolutely have voted on D1 as scum
I think this is maybe the second time ever in a game that I've failed to place a vote before EoD. I'm normally much more conscientious and don't typically forget when EoD is, although I think every time I play a game when the US has already gone through daylight savings and Europe hasn't, it throws me off 😅
 

WindwardAway

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Because we're usually dealing with 4-6 person scum teams, we typically assume a certain level of strategy. Odds are good that they'll get at least one person who responds to the less actives when they pop in, watches the flow, and at least strategizes some if other people get busy etc. The kind of person who made sure everyone on the group project turned their shit in, and wrote the References Cited. Often there are at least a few. So we keep that mindset throughout the game.

We can't make that assumption here, with a 3 person scum that lost one day 1. There could be two inactives, two talky talkers, or anything in between.
Oh wow, you usually play larger games here? I have the opposite problem: I'm more accustomed to solving small/mid-sized games (17 or fewer players) and it takes me a couple days before I can really get going. I hyperfocus on a small number of slots to start out and I get in trouble for it every time 😂
 

WindwardAway

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I have Jarrod as likely town too. I didn't see the OMGUS challenge to claws and voting on him coming from scum Jarrod? Along with his general posts they feel more town.

And yeah its a feel on Matthieu. I'd like to look elsewhere and prod before coming back to him. Maybe his offer to cover Claws pocketed me and then the double down especially with the gun.

I can see the counter arguments to that though so its what I am jumping back and forth between.
I'm curious to know, if you're most comfortable not voting Matthieu or Jarrod, would you be gunning for Mazer? Who would be next on your list after that, or haven't you gotten that far?

Asking because I want some new perspectives thrown my way since I have those three in my current scope but I'm wondering who else I'm missing, and if I'm only focused on them because, well, they've been more active than everyone else, with the exception of you and me, and I believe you're town and know I'm town.
 

Mazer

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Oh wow, you usually play larger games here? I have the opposite problem: I'm more accustomed to solving small/mid-sized games (17 or fewer players) and it takes me a couple days before I can really get going. I hyperfocus on a small number of slots to start out and I get in trouble for it every time 😂
A lot of the recent ones have been in the mid to high 20s.
 

WindwardAway

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A lot of the recent ones have been in the mid to high 20s.
Impressive
The last game I played with over 20 players ended on D2 because the scum team screwed up and outed themselves because they thought it was a multiball (it wasn't, they were the only scum, so in offering openly to collab with town they just sentenced themselves to death)
 

Mazer

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Impressive
The last game I played with over 20 players ended on D2 because the scum team screwed up and outed themselves because they thought it was a multiball (it wasn't, they were the only scum, so in offering openly to collab with town they just sentenced themselves to death)
I guess my whole thing about the person who makes sure the group project is done correctly did not apply to that team.
 

VoidKitten

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Our typical games are very mechanic heavy and role madness, but have writeups that show who was targeted by what characters (if the action goes off). You can use the writeups to narrow down who can be what. But no claiming whatsoever allowed.

As for your question, I am looking at Mazer and then Future/PG as the lowest on my trust. Matthieu and Windward are after.

With PG it was not having anything, but we can see how BN does. For Future it was how he posted when he came back. I leaned it town because it seemed similar to Kareemah, but outside of that I had nothing and there was nothing further and he still hasn't shown.

If I had a gun and had to shoot immediately (I wouldn't immediately), I'd probably go between Future or Mazer. Possibly Matthieu if most people wanted to clear him from any type of PoE
 

WindwardAway

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Our typical games are very mechanic heavy and role madness, but have writeups that show who was targeted by what characters (if the action goes off). You can use the writeups to narrow down who can be what. But no claiming whatsoever allowed.

As for your question, I am looking at Mazer and then Future/PG as the lowest on my trust. Matthieu and Windward are after.

With PG it was not having anything, but we can see how BN does. For Future it was how he posted when he came back. I leaned it town because it seemed similar to Kareemah, but outside of that I had nothing and there was nothing further and he still hasn't shown.

If I had a gun and had to shoot immediately (I wouldn't immediately), I'd probably go between Future or Mazer. Possibly Matthieu if most people wanted to clear him from any type of PoE

All right, thanks for the response.

What's your opinion on LDG, do you think she'll make her alignment more obvious later on?
 

VoidKitten

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All right, thanks for the response.

What's your opinion on LDG, do you think she'll make her alignment more obvious later on?
Nope. Outside of a slip, feel reads are some of the only way to work on LDG. I do not believe LDG has been scum in nearly a year or two, but this could obviously be the first.

Claws tried to push her saying "Well that sucks" to the death. It's possible she was reacting to Caito, but it was right after CWE. It felt more town of a reaction from her.
 

WindwardAway

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Nope. Outside of a slip, feel reads are some of the only way to work on LDG. I do not believe LDG has been scum in nearly a year or two, but this could obviously be the first.

Claws tried to push her saying "Well that sucks" to the death. It's possible she was reacting to Caito, but it was right after CWE. It felt more town of a reaction from her.
I'm with you on assuming it was in reaction to CWE dying tbh
As scum it would be weird to just openly announce that you're sad your partner died in the thread lol, so I'm assuming that's not what she meant

That being said, I'm not really willing to give it more than a mild town point because I've absolutely seen wolves do that after a town death
 

Mazer

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Our typical games are very mechanic heavy and role madness, but have writeups that show who was targeted by what characters (if the action goes off). You can use the writeups to narrow down who can be what. But no claiming whatsoever allowed.

As for your question, I am looking at Mazer and then Future/PG as the lowest on my trust. Matthieu and Windward are after.

With PG it was not having anything, but we can see how BN does. For Future it was how he posted when he came back. I leaned it town because it seemed similar to Kareemah, but outside of that I had nothing and there was nothing further and he still hasn't shown.

If I had a gun and had to shoot immediately (I wouldn't immediately), I'd probably go between Future or Mazer. Possibly Matthieu if most people wanted to clear him from any type of PoE
Peter Griffin lower than val, windward, LDG, etc? How so? Did he also make a comment about the person you wanted to die trolling?

I had to go look at that Satsu vote again.
 

Blind Ninja

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Val, LDG, Future and Kareem all need to post more.

Val - The "I dont like early game with nothing to go off of" is getting old. In a small game like this, we need all the input and opinions we can get. INTERACTIONS drive a game like this.

LDG - Barely more active. I wouldnt say of their 11-12 posts, maybe more then a couple are game relation (IMO). Failure to vote d2.

Kareem/Future - Kinda the same for me right now. Both post, occasionally, but dont really say anything. Sorry was busy. So and so is at work. How about some game content?
 

VoidKitten

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Peter Griffin lower than val, windward, LDG, etc? How so? Did he also make a comment about the person you wanted to die trolling?

I had to go look at that Satsu vote again.
Windward has WIM going in her favor. It feels town. It's lowered because this can be faked. Especially with Claws flip and the jumping back and forth after being insistent. Absolutely could be a genuine towny perspective, but could also have been scum. It feels townier with a side of caution. Also given a mild derp clear. Confused with how many scum there were and willingness to just jump with someone saying there were 4. It felt towny.

LDG - Early posts feel like town LDG. You acting like you don't know how we have to read LDG and acting like we ever have anything other than gut feel with her is strange.

Val - Derp clear. He tried pushing me and fucked up the vote count and what it meant. Scum wouldn't have done that most likely. Only thing you could say is if Val and Matthieu were scum, he came in at the end to try and save Matthieu. But that would necessitate both Val and Matthieu being the scum with Caito. And I don't see Val and Matthieu killing CWE?
 

MTR

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I know I have been slacking a bit on the posting but hoping some of the inactives would get in here and post so a bit frustrating.

Still going town on Kareemah but need some interaction to help us solve. Same with LDG.

Starting to think at least one of you more vocal people are scum but not sure who just yet.
 

Matthieu

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I'm fairly confident that Void can be trusted. He likes to solve games and typically when he's town he's more willing to look at things from different angles. I'm not just saying that because he's vouched for me, either.

Unfortunately I have a hunch that scum will just take him out to further isolate me since so many people have been oddly keen to just follow the crowd and go with the plan to eliminate both Claws and myself.

So I'm mostly concerned with mitigating that. Mazer should absolutely be yeeted once my alignment is revealed but I honestly don't know where to suggest going from there other than to just make your way through the quieter players. With two scum to find, I'd wager one is being vocal and another is sitting back. If that's not the case and Mazer isn't scum then...it'd be bitterly hilarious if both remaining scum are just sitting back and not really checking in because town are too busy arguing amongst themselves.

Which isn't an uncommon trend in these games but I don't have the energy to push harder for inactive players to be properly pushed and looked at.
 

VoidKitten

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Yeah, I am pretty okay with going after Mazer. He has been on the edge of his sarcastic play most game. He then changed it up but is back being sarcastic instead of discussing.

No, I do not see Matthieu and Val killing CWE when they are proponents of not killing people early who died early recently. Maybe one of them by themselves with someone else pushing it, but I don't think CWE gets chosen if both were scum.

Peter threw down a random vote? It means nothing. I have absolutely voted scum team members on Day 1. Unlikely for them to go over. If they do, I look good typically. Peter is pretty null.

BN on the other hand at least has more going for it and is something I can deal with.
 

ForgottenHold

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Val, LDG, Future and Kareem all need to post more.

Val - The "I dont like early game with nothing to go off of" is getting old. In a small game like this, we need all the input and opinions we can get. INTERACTIONS drive a game like this.

LDG - Barely more active. I wouldnt say of their 11-12 posts, maybe more then a couple are game relation (IMO). Failure to vote d2.

Kareem/Future - Kinda the same for me right now. Both post, occasionally, but dont really say anything. Sorry was busy. So and so is at work. How about some game content?
I'm just trying new strategies, in actuality, this is just a lot for me, and i need to reread the thread and look over things slowly
 

MTR

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I don't quite like it either. I can see where this is not what he expected but new strategy?
 

Mazer

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Yeah, I am pretty okay with going after Mazer. He has been on the edge of his sarcastic play most game. He then changed it up but is back being sarcastic instead of discussing.

No, I do not see Matthieu and Val killing CWE when they are proponents of not killing people early who died early recently. Maybe one of them by themselves with someone else pushing it, but I don't think CWE gets chosen if both were scum.

Peter threw down a random vote? It means nothing. I have absolutely voted scum team members on Day 1. Unlikely for them to go over. If they do, I look good typically. Peter is pretty null.

BN on the other hand at least has more going for it and is something I can deal with.
I'm not being sarcastic. Like to the point I have to remind myself that it's early, and it's possible for you to be this off.

Your reads are befuddling me to the point that I had to create a new theory about you having a plan. like a good guy version of a 3rd party play.


So maybe more cavalier than sarcastic. Which is a pretty common flippy flop based on my mood.

Although I am wondering if I gave you a complex in an earlier game. I am working on healing plan for you. Also not sarcastic.
 

VoidKitten

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I don't quite like it either. I can see where this is not what he expected but new strategy?
I also don't get the not what he expected. He played throne of lies. A game where he cloud claim with crazy mechanics and he didn't have an issue grasping that and posted.
 

Mazer

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I'm just trying new strategies, in actuality, this is just a lot for me, and i need to reread the thread and look over things slowly
Is the strategy how to avoid pressure when your team is hit early?

New scenarios are tough.
 

VoidKitten

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I'm not being sarcastic. Like to the point I have to remind myself that it's early, and it's possible for you to be this off.

Your reads are befuddling me to the point that I had to create a new theory about you having a plan. like a good guy version of a 3rd party play.


So maybe more cavalier than sarcastic. Which is a pretty common flippy flop based on my mood.

Although I am wondering if I gave you a complex in an earlier game. I am working on healing plan for you. Also not sarcastic.
This entire post didn't help me move you anywhere closer to town in my mind, lol.

You are going sarcastic and not asking or explaining why they are befuddling. You are going with jokes.

I don't think anyone else is having difficulty seeing where my reads come from. They may not agree, but this doesn't feel like town mazer.

When I said I laughed for reason, I had you and Claws as the final 2 while you had Claws/Matthieu. And I said this would be too easy.
 

MTR

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I also don't get the not what he expected. He played throne of lies. A game where he cloud claim with crazy mechanics and he didn't have an issue grasping that and posted.
That is a fair point but I think most of my family prefers games with various power roles and mechanics and such when it comes to solving instead of just mostly going by reads. Tildey is probably the only one that would have really gotten into this had she had the time.
 

MTR

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Yeah I am ready for the gun. I don't want the gun but I am ready for the gun day.
 

VoidKitten

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I'll take the gun. Honestly, I'd like it. I expect to die tonight or at least sometime soon. at least my death can be clearing of someone else.

Plus, I get to murder someone and look even worse when I train town for the second time.
 

Mazer

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This entire post didn't help me move you anywhere closer to town in my mind, lol.

You are going sarcastic and not asking or explaining why they are befuddling. You are going with jokes.

I don't think anyone else is having difficulty seeing where my reads come from. They may not agree, but this doesn't feel like town mazer.

When I said I laughed for reason, I had you and Claws as the final 2 while you had Claws/Matthieu. And I said this would be too easy.
I think I actually have.

Your read on me is based on your point you made in Kingsmen. Where you talked about how when I'm town I can help myself with trolling. I've moved my amount of cavalierness some. A weakness used to be that I was too cavalier as town, to the point where if I joked at CWE's first push, he would tend to back off. In honesty, my cavalierness tell is most correlated with my stress relief desire and/or my comfort with a situation. Like in Kingsmen, when I was trying to be the scum bait. In this game, I'll be nightkilled. There's no risk of a shot.

You are inconsistent in your clears. Your pressure on claws, as I said even when I supported the move, was somewhat on the press on you. And on the very same page, you used it back up your clearing of Matthieu. I'd love for me to show you where he's been active on moving cwe off a kill. It is befuddling to me that you seem completely dismissive to one of my core values as a player.

Also, I think that Claws made it well. You have no positive voting trends on val, mattheiu, etc and you are more worried about PG (now BN), who had an early vote on Caito.

My jokes should be viewed as me trying to put a jovial tone, since it's a game. And I don't actually want to cause more people to jump out windows and self-vote.
 

Mazer

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I'll take the gun. Honestly, I'd like it. I expect to die tonight or at least sometime soon. at least my death can be clearing of someone else.

Plus, I get to murder someone and look even worse when I train town for the second time.
if I don't get the gun, I hope karma gives it to you.
 

VoidKitten

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I think I actually have.

Your read on me is based on your point you made in Kingsmen. Where you talked about how when I'm town I can help myself with trolling. I've moved my amount of cavalierness some. A weakness used to be that I was too cavalier as town, to the point where if I joked at CWE's first push, he would tend to back off. In honesty, my cavalierness tell is most correlated with my stress relief desire and/or my comfort with a situation. Like in Kingsmen, when I was trying to be the scum bait. In this game, I'll be nightkilled. There's no risk of a shot.

You are inconsistent in your clears. Your pressure on claws, as I said even when I supported the move, was somewhat on the press on you. And on the very same page, you used it back up your clearing of Matthieu. I'd love for me to show you where he's been active on moving cwe off a kill. It is befuddling to me that you seem completely dismissive to one of my core values as a player.

Also, I think that Claws made it well. You have no positive voting trends on val, mattheiu, etc and you are more worried about PG (now BN), who had an early vote on Caito.

My jokes should be viewed as me trying to put a jovial tone, since it's a game. And I don't actually want to cause more people to jump out windows and self-vote.
Matthieu does not kill players who died early unless he didn't realize they died early. I have been on scum teams with him where he specifically pushes against that. Could he have done it? Absolutely. I think its less likely.

Am I telling you not to be sus of him? No. I am telling you why I think he is town. And you are focusing more on why I think he is town instead of focusing on reasons why he is not. We clearly disagree. :)
 

Blind Ninja

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With night going as long as it is... does lend to an inactive team or teammate...

I know when ive been scum, going into a night phase we've had conversations about who a good target is and dont always wait.

So going 20hrs without could be inactives... or could be Psycho is busy and hasnt had time to post the results of night.
 

Blind Ninja

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Matthieu does not kill players who died early unless he didn't realize they died early. I have been on scum teams with him where he specifically pushes against that. Could he have done it? Absolutely. I think its less likely.

Am I telling you not to be sus of him? No. I am telling you why I think he is town. And you are focusing more on why I think he is town instead of focusing on reasons why he is not. We clearly disagree. :)
Not completely true.... pretty sure i was a n2 kill from him and his team after being d1'd the previous game recently
 

VoidKitten

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Not completely true.... pretty sure i was a n2 kill from him and his team after being d1'd the previous game recently
You weren't an N1 kill. That's my point. To kill CWE, Matthieu (and Val based on that other scenario) would have needed to decide that CWE was the person they wanted to get rid of. I'd think they'd go elsewhere? But maybe I'm wrong. I was wrong about Claws.

If y'all want to train Matthieu tomorrow, I'm not going to stop anyone.

But seriously, the gun should be used tomorrow on someone we think is actually scum or someone who being told they are town will clear the PoE. Because the person who is shot won't live long most likely.
 

Mazer

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With night going as long as it is... does lend to an inactive team or teammate...

I know when ive been scum, going into a night phase we've had conversations about who a good target is and dont always wait.

So going 20hrs without could be inactives... or could be Psycho is busy and hasnt had time to post the results of night.
I don't hate this take. I mean, I know you love inactive kills. But I don't hate this take.
 

VoidKitten

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With night going as long as it is... does lend to an inactive team or teammate...

I know when ive been scum, going into a night phase we've had conversations about who a good target is and dont always wait.

So going 20hrs without could be inactives... or could be Psycho is busy and hasnt had time to post the results of night.
I tend to believe Psycho would end the day quicker. Or at least comment that it is coming.

So maybe? Or they want to use the time to discuss privately, but they could just do that during the day. I think I'd be ending night quickly if I were able to.
 

Mazer

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You weren't an N1 kill. That's my point. To kill CWE, Matthieu (and Val based on that other scenario) would have needed to decide that CWE was the person they wanted to get rid of. I'd think they'd go elsewhere? But maybe I'm wrong. I was wrong about Claws.

If y'all want to train Matthieu tomorrow, I'm not going to stop anyone.

But seriously, the gun should be used tomorrow on someone we think is actually scum or someone who being told they are town will clear the PoE. Because the person who is shot won't live long most likely.
And you should KNOW Caito is very likely to request, really demand, the CWE kill. CWE wasn't a n1 kill last game, and you're assuming that mathieu remembers and overrides it.

And once again, completely devalue it for me. Someone who actively agues against even early kills from previous games, and once created a whole game called "CWE Makes Endgame" based around the premise that CWE finally be able to live.

Its Fine Ok GIF by ZDF Magazin Royale
 

VoidKitten

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Do you want to keep beating this dead horse or continue wasting more of our living time arguing the same point.

You know I'm not scum. There is no point in arguing my comments. You know they aren't coming from a scum PoV. Maybe I'm wrong and have bad views.

Why not talk about it to others? I am on, albeit loud and annoying, opinion.
 

VoidKitten

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@Matthieu

Are we going to break up after this game like we did that one game where you betrayed my trust after telling me you wouldn't betray my trust thus betraying my trust?
 

WindwardAway

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You weren't an N1 kill. That's my point. To kill CWE, Matthieu (and Val based on that other scenario) would have needed to decide that CWE was the person they wanted to get rid of. I'd think they'd go elsewhere? But maybe I'm wrong. I was wrong about Claws.

If y'all want to train Matthieu tomorrow, I'm not going to stop anyone.

But seriously, the gun should be used tomorrow on someone we think is actually scum or someone who being told they are town will clear the PoE. Because the person who is shot won't live long most likely.
I'm fine with shooting Future tbh
His latest post did nothing for me
 

MTR

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You got the gun. You have to shoot someone based on just the information tonight. Who do you shoot and why?
I told you I don't want the gun. :grumpy:

Anyway. I would probably shoot one of the more vocal people because I feel like we have a scum in the mix trying to control the conversation in different ways. I can understand going for an inactive and trying to see if a scum is just skating by and keep the vocal people alive and going.

Just on a gut call I would probably go Mazer if I just had to make the call.
 

WindwardAway

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It's always the same people active in the thread
It's not a bad thing but I wish everyone were as active, or at least, posted more than twice in a day
 

Blind Ninja

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You weren't an N1 kill. That's my point. To kill CWE, Matthieu (and Val based on that other scenario) would have needed to decide that CWE was the person they wanted to get rid of. I'd think they'd go elsewhere? But maybe I'm wrong. I was wrong about Claws.

If y'all want to train Matthieu tomorrow, I'm not going to stop anyone.

But seriously, the gun should be used tomorrow on someone we think is actually scum or someone who being told they are town will clear the PoE. Because the person who is shot won't live long most likely.
You said wouldnt kill someone that was killed EARLY

N2 is early. You're right, its not N1... But your arguement was an early death
 

VoidKitten

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It's always the same people active in the thread
It's not a bad thing but I wish everyone were as active, or at least, posted more than twice in a day
Welcome to our mafia games :)

In the smaller games, the vocal ones tend to die first which leaves us with some more quiet ones. Which is why you see me talk a lot about feel of posts since its how I have to go.

Larger games we tend to have a lot more convo. Plus the vocal players may not have roles the scum want to kill based on info, so they tend to live longer.
 

WindwardAway

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If Future flip scum, who do you think is most likely aligned then?
Eyeing Mazer tbh

I think independently they both have scum equity, Future more than Mazer, but I could absolutely see them as partnered because even if Mazer has been side eyeing Future he hasn't made a move to start a wagon there, despite being given the option to. He went for Matthieu and Claws yesterday, which matches with his readlist, but I could see them as partnered by way of not really giving strong reads on each other. Mazer has only really said Future could be potential scum when there was discussion about his slot.
 

Mazer

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Do you want to keep beating this dead horse or continue wasting more of our living time arguing the same point.

You know I'm not scum. There is no point in arguing my comments. You know they aren't coming from a scum PoV. Maybe I'm wrong and have bad views.

Why not talk about it to others? I am on, albeit loud and annoying, opinion.
One of us will die soon. then the other will die after. Seems relevant for you to have a correct focus. I want my teams to be 2-0 this style.

And, honestly, I am annoyed by the read and want to make sure that I don't have to deal with it again.
 

Matthieu

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@Matthieu

Are we going to break up after this game like we did that one game where you betrayed my trust after telling me you wouldn't betray my trust thus betraying my trust?
No.

I think the best route is to just push to yeet me if I survive the night phase and then use the gun to take out an inactive...or Mazer. I'll just be exploited as a distraction moving forward so there's little point bringing me into the mid/late game. Ordinarily I'd be all for it, but I'll be 'busy' with gaming as soon as RE4 goes live and it was more fun to have back and forth with Foxxi and avoid being executed because I actually had something to bring to the table as a solid gamble. I don't in this game, unless I end up with the gun.
 

VoidKitten

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You said wouldnt kill someone that was killed EARLY

N2 is early. You're right, its not N1... But your arguement was an early death
I also said earlier he wouldn't do it unless he had someone pushing htat direction. I won't say about that game specifically, but I do remember being scum with Grae and him not wanting to push any of the easy targets or ones who died early. /shrug
 

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Welcome to our mafia games :)

In the smaller games, the vocal ones tend to die first which leaves us with some more quiet ones. Which is why you see me talk a lot about feel of posts since its how I have to go.

Larger games we tend to have a lot more convo. Plus the vocal players may not have roles the scum want to kill based on info, so they tend to live longer.
Ah yes, the classic "kill loud town until scum have thread control" strategy
 

VoidKitten

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No.

I think the best route is to just push to yeet me if I survive the night phase and then use the gun to take out an inactive...or Mazer. I'll just be exploited as a distraction moving forward so there's little point bringing me into the mid/late game. Ordinarily I'd be all for it, but I'll be 'busy' with gaming as soon as RE4 goes live and it was more fun to have back and forth with Foxxi and avoid being executed because I actually had something to bring to the table as a solid gamble. I don't in this game, unless I end up with the gun.
This feels so towny that I will be so sad if he isn't.

I am now in Matthieu's pocket.
 

Mazer

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@Mazer

If Matthieu is town, who do you look at after him?
Future is the one I've moved to the other high spot.

i made a whole list of my priorities, and updated. Nothing today has deviated on this much. Future's post today clearly puts him in red threat.

Windward is the other who has potential to move up.
 

VoidKitten

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I do understand what Matthieu is saying. It is the exact same argument I used for yeeting Claws. If Matthieu will end up being a possible lylo yeet, will people be hesitant or will him being town cost everyone the game there because they are unsure of him.
 

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What do you think of Mazer, MTR, and Windward. If you said it already just point out the post.
Think MTR is clean... more gut mix with things people have said.
Mazer is active. Feel he is coming from a more town view.
Windward coming in strong for someone we dont know. I need more to drive my opinon (more interactions with me based on my goofy shit i do) Could be town, could be power wolf

I dont like how you say you are mechanically clear... I dont agree that you are 100% clear. I feel you are most likely town. There is a off the wall theory that you could be scum, but its highly unlikely
 

VoidKitten

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Future is the one I've moved to the other high spot.

i made a whole list of my priorities, and updated. Nothing today has deviated on this much. Future's post today clearly puts him in red threat.

Windward is the other who has potential to move up.
I know you did. But if Matthieu is town, does that change your priorities? Does anything shift specifically if Matthieu flips town is all. Or the same list still goes on.
 

Blind Ninja

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I told you I don't want the gun. :grumpy:

Anyway. I would probably shoot one of the more vocal people because I feel like we have a scum in the mix trying to control the conversation in different ways. I can understand going for an inactive and trying to see if a scum is just skating by and keep the vocal people alive and going.

Just on a gut call I would probably go Mazer if I just had to make the call.
I feel like we have a little wiggle room and can misyeet an inactive now.
 

VoidKitten

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Think MTR is clean... more gut mix with things people have said.
Mazer is active. Feel he is coming from a more town view.
Windward coming in strong for someone we dont know. I need more to drive my opinon (more interactions with me based on my goofy shit i do) Could be town, could be power wolf

I dont like how you say you are mechanically clear... I dont agree that you are 100% clear. I feel you are most likely town. There is a off the wall theory that you could be scum, but its highly unlikely
There is an off the wall theory yes. It's the one I brought up.

You can paranoia all you want about me (not you specifically) but its obvious this isn't my scum playstyle on top of it being highly unlikely for Satsu to perform that trick.

If Matthieu flips red though, I look like shit.
 

VoidKitten

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We do have more wiggle room than anticipated. I can run it again. Not having 2 town die to gun I believe gives us 1 extra misyeet.
 

Mazer

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Eyeing Mazer tbh

I think independently they both have scum equity, Future more than Mazer, but I could absolutely see them as partnered because even if Mazer has been side eyeing Future he hasn't made a move to start a wagon there, despite being given the option to. He went for Matthieu and Claws yesterday, which matches with his readlist, but I could see them as partnered by way of not really giving strong reads on each other. Mazer has only really said Future could be potential scum when there was discussion about his slot.
You know I asked about him yesterday, and have him as a top 2 right? After his one post today, he might actually get my shot.
 

VoidKitten

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Day 3 - 8/2 (Gun hits town, yeet town)
Night 3 - 6/2 (Scum kill town)
Day 4 - 5/2 (Misyeet)
Night 4 - 4/2 (scum kill town)
Day 5 - 3/2 (Lylo)
 

VoidKitten

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So since you are tossing questions...

How do you feel about me?
I am okay with you right now. You could be scum or town, but you do seem to actually be asking questions and not just accepting things that are established. Some of it is pedantic but you tend to do that with arguments occasionally.

If you are scum, you likely have an experienced partner, as I don't think the final 2 scum are both inactive. Or well at least hope not.
 

Mazer

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I know you did. But if Matthieu is town, does that change your priorities? Does anything shift specifically if Matthieu flips town is all. Or the same list still goes on.
If Matthieu was town wouldn't change my view of future. Nothing that I can remember there that would impact that read.

If Matt was town, I would move you to higher than 90%. I'm not sure if it would impact my feeling on windward. I'd honestly have to see how that played out. Right now, i learn more if he's scum.

I don't see him as town as that paradigm shifting. If future was town, matthieu staying on kareemah might look worse.
 

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If we are going to shoot an inactive I would probably lean Future if we have the wiggle room
 

Mazer

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If Matthieu was town wouldn't change my view of future. Nothing that I can remember there that would impact that read.

If Matt was town, I would move you to higher than 90%. I'm not sure if it would impact my feeling on windward. I'd honestly have to see how that played out. Right now, i learn more if he's scum.

I don't see him as town as that paradigm shifting. If future was town, matthieu staying on kareemah might look worse.
Meant to say "if future was scum".

Matt then staying on kareemah as his loan inactive looks a bit worse.
 
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